November 16, 20178 yr Hi Col, Electric Bicycles are and always have been a special case. Everything seems to be working well at the moment, the only reason to make a change as far as I can see is to feather the nests of the few European monster manufacturers. Ebikes are simply not being dumped in Europe and Chinese manufacturers do not get huge subsidies, as everyone is aware this is simply about protectionism, nothing else. In the 20 years ADT have been on Chinese non-ebikes, production has simply been moved to other Asian countries. Cambodia, The Philippines, Bangladesh, Tunisia*, and Thailand between them supply about 70% of the-non electric cycles coming into the the UK. The only reason that China has been penalised both in the past and now is that they are real threat especially in terms of product design and development. *One has to wonder how many bikes are actually made in Tunisia, and these are not simply rebadged bakes from the far east. If we want something real to worry about in the bicycle industry, consider this. A reported 50% of bicycle retailers have or are just about to close down in Shanghai area and Giant have cut production. Indeed Giant are now making the product that has shattered the industry in China. I believe this new threat will more than decimate bike shops throughout Europe too. Does anyone know what it is? Edited November 16, 20178 yr by Wisper Bikes
November 16, 20178 yr I'm not sure Bosch were even at the meeting of the EMBA, bearing in mind they aren't a bike brand. Its also bigger than just Bosch, its multiple motors and bigger than that its the bike brands. I've been saying for years, that eBike industry in the UK is going to get shaken up as soon as the big players in the Industry realise there is a market. Its starting to happen and they will push out the small players just like they have done in normal bikes over the past 10 year. If this current thing doesn't work, they'll do something else. You are probably correct, the big players will try anything and everything to make more cash, fair means or foul! Edited November 16, 20178 yr by Wisper Bikes
November 16, 20178 yr http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20171110IPR87817/parliament-passes-new-anti-dumping-rules-to-protect-eu-jobs-and-industry Why call it anti dumping? Why not call it as it is "protectionism"? If we follow this to it's conclusion, lets all get rid of our cameras, drones, phones, computers, TV's etc all made in Asia. Lets put a fence up around the UK and not allow any products that are not made here into our little island. We can make all that stuff here and make loads of new jobs! Or have we already sort of done that? Edited November 16, 20178 yr by Wisper Bikes
November 16, 20178 yr Do you think they are going after Decathlon and the like in this thing? When I go to S.Sebastian which is a cycling city 8 out of 10 bikes (subjective estimate) is a B'Twin and they seem to be moving a few e-bikes now.
November 16, 20178 yr Hi Col, Electric Bicycles are and always have been a special case. Why? They are just bicycles aren't they? We can't argue they are bicycles on one hand and then say they are special on the other can we?
November 16, 20178 yr Why? They are just bicycles aren't they? We can't argue they are bicycles on one hand and then say they are special on the other can we? No. You see Col an electric bicycle has a battery and a motor that assists the rider and cannot be ridden by anyone under the age of 14. They are actually a motor vehicle but have a special dispensation that enables riders under very strict conditions to be able to use them as if they were a bicycle. A bicycle does not have a motor and any one can ride them regardless of age etc, etc. I hope that helps. All the best, David
November 16, 20178 yr No. You see Col an electric bicycle has a battery and a motor that assists the rider and cannot be ridden by anyone under the age of 14. They are actually a motor vehicle but have a special dispensation that enables riders under very strict conditions to be able to use them as if they were a bicycle. A bicycle does not have a motor and any one can ride them regardless of age etc, etc. I hope that helps. All the best, David Ah but you aren't in the EU where those conditions are not imposed on the under 14 so they are "just bicycles"...
November 16, 20178 yr Ah but you aren't in the EU where those conditions are not imposed on the under 14 so they are "just bicycles"... Got it!
November 21, 20178 yr China is the new Switzerland... http://www.bike-eu.com/laws-regulations/nieuws/2017/11/will-eu-impose-triple-digit-anti-dumping-duty-chinese-e-bikes-10132040
November 21, 20178 yr How is it we can buy ebikes to the same specs cheaper in Romania than I can in China? This has been the experience for all my colleagues, in all cases we are finding prices in Europe the same or less than in China. We are set to move by early next year in response to this latest round of protectionism. Quite honestly dealing with and travelling to Romania, Spain or Portugal rather than China is far more appealing. It just feels like a gross injustice is taking place.
November 21, 20178 yr It does seem as Col has mentioned that this is simply the big manufacturers flexing their muscles, finding a way to drive out the competition, especially those who have battled for years to create the market the big producers are now enjoying. Maybe the volume end of the market is going to get tougher as the big boys squabble for their piece of the action. Maybe we smaller, more ethical producers should follow the lead of Orange, Brompton, Pashley etc, become very much more niche? What ever happens it will be very interesting. I for one will not miss 30 odd hour round trips 5 or 6 times a year. Portugal in particular sounds wonderful!
November 21, 20178 yr Maybe we smaller, more ethical producers should follow the lead of Orange, Brompton, Pashley etc, become very much more niche? What ever happens it will be very interesting. it seems to me that'll be the only way.
November 22, 20178 yr I would understand the dumping claims if the European manufacturers made entry level bikes that are in competition with cheap Chinese bikes. They don't. It is they who are in the niche market making small quantities of over priced bikes when the world needs (urgently we are led to believe) large volumes of reasonably priced, clean, sustainable transportation. I am leaving e-MTBs out the equation, they are for the well off and leisure use. Giant, from that other China, are about as close as it gets and even they need to knock about 500€ off their prices to compete with the real competition: the cheap 4 stroke moped.
November 24, 20178 yr The Light Electric Vehicle Association EU are putting in a very comprehensive case against Anti Dumping today. They believe, as we all do that is is completely unjust and simply three or four big players trying to get a strangle hold on the market. The case LEVA-EU on behalf of European importers are putting is very comprehensive and has a strong chance of winning the day. Bafang and the Chinese Chamber of Commerce have also put in strong arguments asking questions that quite frankly cannot be answered. All we need now is as many voices against this travesty as possible. We could still win the day. After today no other testaments or protests will be considered. As far as I can ascertain only five EBike manufacturers / importers in the UK have supported LEVA in their action. Axis B Spoke E Bikes Direct EMU Wisper Does everyone realise that if this goes ahead, there will be an immediate call for anti circumvention to come into place. If this happens, motors batteries and most parts will only be allowed into the UK and other EU members with the anti dumping levy applied. This will put an estimated 50% onto the price of ebike parts, kits and full electric bikes coming in from China. This will in turn only have one consequence, it will certainly drive up the price of ALL electric bikes. Fortunately we have our new Taiwanese eMTB range to fall back on but many ebike distributors and retail companies in the UK will be wiped out. If you are a business that relies on Chinese ebike parts or complete bikes to keep in business, today is the last chance to make your voice heard. If you have any commercial interest in saving this sector of the eBike market place please contact: Annick Roetynck Light Electric Vehicle Association of Europe leva-eu@telenet.be Annick will send you the forms for your signature immediately. She needs your signature today. Edited November 24, 20178 yr by Wisper Bikes
November 24, 20178 yr David, Under normal circumstance, we would have had no hesitation to sign up to show our solidarity. However, after reading the complaint document, we are a little divided on this issue, so we will abstain this time. Best wishes, Tony
November 24, 20178 yr Wow! What is it exactly that bothers you? You have one chance. When you say "this time" Tony, if we lose do you think there will be a next time? Woosh is one of the businesses that will have to close. Many here love your bikes, it would be such a shame.
November 24, 20178 yr David, I read very carefully the arguments put forward by the complainants. They have about 30% of unused capacity at the moment, although the market is growing at an accelerated pace. Competition from China puts EU manufacturers into a corner. China has the capacity and the technology to wipe them out completely within a generation. The EU will have to consider if ADD needs to be applied to stop the EU manufacturers to be wiped out. As I explained some time ago, I have looked at the cost of assembling in the UK and put it at £75 per bike. We can transit to assembling in the UK economically if the EU slaps 10% ADD on Chinese bikes.
November 24, 20178 yr Hi Tony, Just a couple of points that may be of relevance. 1. The earliest date that the Tariffs could be imposed is 20th December 2017, in about three weeks. 2. If the first part goes through on whole ebikes, the second application, on circumvention, which will include all ebikes parts made in China will follow very quickly. All the best, David
November 24, 20178 yr We are set up to make bikes in Spain or Portugal now at a few weeks notice, it the restriction on parts that is seriously worrying me.
November 24, 20178 yr Hi Tony, Just a couple of points that may be of relevance. 1. The earliest date that the Tariffs could be imposed is 20th December 2017, in about three weeks. 2. If the first part goes through on whole ebikes, the second application, on circumvention, which will include all ebikes parts made in China will follow very quickly. All the best, David it does not matter, really. but even so, 1) could well drag on for ages with representations on both sides. From the Chinese side, e-bikes should be on the green product list and there will be plenty of producers willing to supply their audited accounts to be excluded from ADD. 2) I doubt that circumvention will amount to much. At the moment, batteries come under HS code 8507600090 at 2.7%, there is no reason for that to be changed because we can assemble batteries for not far off the Chinese price, motor wheels come under HS code 8714999089, it's not mid mount motor, unlikely to be hit by ADD.
November 24, 20178 yr it does not matter, really. but even so, 1) could well drag on for ages with representations on both sides. From the Chinese side, e-bikes should be on the green product list and there will be plenty of producers willing to supply their audited accounts to be excluded from ADD. 2) I doubt that circumvention will amount to much. At the moment, batteries come under HS code 8507600090 at 2.7%, there is no reason for that to be changed because we can assemble batteries for not far off the Chinese price, motor wheels come under HS code 8714999089, it's not mid mount motor, unlikely to be hit by ADD. Well lets all sit back, touch wood and keep our fingers crossed!
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