I guess that means you have a 48v version, so you are getting a bit more than the 48V TSDZ2 that Woosh talked about earlier?

 

25% is a one in 4 gradient, is this right? I believe so; 1 in 7 is about 14%. I think they are always quoted vertical distance against road distance, not against horizontal distance. Doesn't make much difference for small slopes, but starts to be significant at 1 in 3.

 

At the moment I just get off and push. Most eBikes have a walk assist feature which will power up to 4mph or so. You might want to double-check before you commit to any particular system.

 

No 36v hub over volted.

 

I still don't know the answer to my original question, will it be any better than the Freego Eagle? If so by how much? I don't want to spend £6-700 on a kit that is no better on these hills than the one I've already got-what is the point of that?

 

I am really grateful for you all for your replies here, there is nothing better than advice from those who have been there.

I'm just more confused than ever, Tony

 

It's a hard nut to crack unless you are able to try a converted bike, then you will be able to gauge how much effort is required.

That which is easy for one rider may not be for another as each of us has different ability,strengths' & weaknesses.

but I haven't a clue as to how this relates to whether or not a 250w crank motor will actually assist me up these hills. They are not that steep, just have lots of gravel and water gullies running through them. The front drive 500w Whoosh Sunbear I had handled them with ease, but the front wheel on gravel caused a few mishaps, it was just downright dangerous for this old body,

the Sunbear has 36V 20A controller.

The TSDZ2 has 48V at 16A, slightly more.

OK so I'm going to take a chance on Whoosh's TSDZ2. I have decided I really want to be street legal as I want to do more on-road rides as the local council here get their act together with the cycleways here in Poole/Bournemouth, riding along the promenade here is lovely in the Spring. It's possible to go almost from Hengistbury Head to Sandbanks along the sea front, about 7 miles.

 

Thank you all for your help, this old fart will report back when he gets it up and running.

 

EDIT: I have just had a really good look at the instructions for the Whoosh kit and it says I will lose my front derailleur, I don't know if that is what I really want. Also I have seen this in this forum:- https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/problem-with-new-tongsheng-tsdz2.29535/

There seems to be a programming issue with the VLCD-5 display unit, and the latest is the VLCD-6, so I wonder why Whoosh are still using this old one with these problems. There are also reports of the TSDZ2 motors being unbearably loud. So I think I'll hold fire and wait a bit longer unless Whoosh can allay my concerns. Maybe I'll revisit a rear hub drive.

There does seem to be a thriving modding community with this motor that has written better firmware:- https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&start=4125

Edited January 7, 20197 yr by vidtek

It's a hard nut to crack unless you are able to try a converted bike, then you will be able to gauge how much effort is required.

That which is easy for one rider may not be for another as each of us has different ability,strengths' & weaknesses.

 

Neal- Yes this is what I suspected and the real reason why nobody can give me a definitive answer to this 250w crank drive being better than the 250w hub drive I already have. I was ready to buy the Whoosh one until I read the bit about losing my front gears, Also they don't like alternative firmware voiding their warranty.

 

I do like to poke around in the electronics of my gear, I don't know I will have the willpower not to fiddle for a year until the warranty expires!

 

There are some dreadful reports of the original topic of this thread, pswpower. Whoosh are so good by comparison. Andy was brilliant with a few things when I bought my Sunbear a few years ago and I feel great loyalty towards them for that. Whether or not it will be enough to make me buy from them.....I don't know at this moment.....Cheers, Tony.

EDIT: I have just had a really good look at the instructions for the Whoosh kit and it says I will lose my front derailleur, I don't know if that is what I really want. Also I have seen this in this forum:- https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/problem-with-new-tongsheng-tsdz2.29535/

There seems to be a programming issue with the VLCD-5 display unit, and the latest is the VLCD-6, so I wonder why Whoosh are still using this old one with these problems.

his problem has nothing to do with the programming of the VLCD-5.

The speed sensor on the Tongseng needs to be fairly accurately set because the sensor element inside the head is very sensitive.

There is an arrow at the top of the sensor casing. The centre of the spoke magnet needs to be lined up to this arrow.

The distance between the magnet and the sensor case needs to be about 5mm-6mm.

If the magnet is too close or the centre of the magnet is not lined up to the arrow, the magnetic field is too strong or not correctly read, he will see the wrong speed.

 

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/2018/tsdz2/spoke-magnet.jpg

Edited January 7, 20197 yr by Woosh

Get yourself a bbs02 or hd. It'll flatten any hill without a front derailleur. Life's too short!

Get yourself a bbs02 or hd. It'll flatten any hill without a front derailleur. Life's too short!

it's still nice to have the kit with standard 5-bolt BCD ring system. How many crank drives in the market that you know having this capacity? this is before the low weight advantage of the TSDZ2 compared to Bafang CD kits.

it's too early days for me to shout praises for the Tongsheng kit, but I have to say this, from my experience, the Tongsheng LCD is better designed, smarter programmed, the wiring system is as neat as you would find on a German bike, the torque sensor system makes it ride much like a German bike, the optional throttle system makes it better, more versatile than German bikes and last but not least, it's hell a lot easier to service than German CD motors.

I'm still humming and hahhing... I would like the certainty of the Bafang as against the unknown quantity of the Tongsheng kit, but Andy and Tony at Whoosh seem to think it will suffice for my purpose. They are better equipped than most to advise, and I believe they are genuine in their advice, not driven by what makes the most profit for them. They would not be so active on here and so well respected here if that were the case.

They only seem to do the earlier Bafang stuff, there seems to be no BBs02 kit from them, and no hd kit either.

If I was to go for the Bafang I would plump for the hd kit as if I am getting an off-road only kit I may as well get one that does the job and more. That leads to a quandary with after-sales-service, my original concern and why I started this topic. I seem to be going round in circles!!!

there seems to be no BBs02 kit from them, and no hd kit either.

it's partly due to our desire to reduce the range of not road legal kits and partly because we don't make any money from BBS02 sales. The failure rate of controllers on the BBS02B is something like 3-4 times that on the BBS01B. Internal controllers on CD kits are fragile, coupled to freely available programming kit for the BBSes multiplies the commercial risk. I made the point of stop digging when you are in a hole a long time ago.

it's partly due to our desire to reduce the range of not road legal kits and partly because we don't make any money from BBS02 sales. The failure rate of controllers on the BBS02B is something like 3-4 times that on the BBS01B. Internal controllers on CD kits are fragile, coupled to freely available programming kit for the BBSes multiplies the commercial risk. I made the point of stop digging when you are in a hole a long time ago.

Thanks Andy/Tony for this, that makes a lot of sense. So the BBS01B has an external controller? I presume that is the one contained in the battery casing. You have said with my integrated brake/gearshift combo the Bafang is more difficult to fit but the Tongsheng is easier, how does that work?----Maybe I should be asking this directly to you on emails rather than on this forum.

There are some very active modding sites for the Tongsheng too, I don't know if I will be able to resist the temptation to meddle with the electronics if I get a kit from you though! With regard to after sales service, I definitely will not be getting a kit from Pswpower, there are too many disgruntled pedelecers with after-sales problems from them. Having said that, I thought I would be safe buying a UK made (from Chinese bits)bike from Freego in Southampton, and now they have just gone into liquidation, so no after-sales service there either. Not that I'm saying Whoosh would go the same way-at least I hope not!

it's still nice to have the kit with standard 5-bolt BCD ring system. How many crank drives in the market that you know having this capacity? this is before the low weight advantage of the TSDZ2 compared to Bafang CD kits.

it's too early days for me to shout praises for the Tongsheng kit, but I have to say this, from my experience, the Tongsheng LCD is better designed, smarter programmed, the wiring system is as neat as you would find on a German bike, the torque sensor system makes it ride much like a German bike, the optional throttle system makes it better, more versatile than German bikes and last but not least, it's hell a lot easier to service than German CD motors.

 

What is the chainline like - I mean in the sense can one use a normal front derailleur mount?

BBS01 has internal controller in the motor casing. Lots to read on the TSDZ2 drive here.

 

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788

What is the chainline like - I mean in the sense can one use a normal front derailleur mount?

I have not fitted the double ring yet, it's somewhere in my workshop but didn't look for it.

I just dropped the motor in like a customer would into my Giant Defy test bike, it still has the factory supplied single ring and the chainline is centred on gear No 5 of my 8-speed test road bike, pretty much the same with the previous Shimano crankset that I took out.

You may find the drawing useful:

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1OJSRPFXXXXcrXFXXq6xXFXXXt/221886021/HTB1OJSRPFXXXXcrXFXXq6xXFXXXt.jpg

BBS01 has internal controller in the motor casing. Lots to read on the TSDZ2 drive here.

 

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788

BTW, the thread run over 168 pages since April 2016, along time ago. Lots of posts in there are no longer applicable.

You should post your questions on this forum.

Slight hijack - Woosh I have a Yosepower kit which has a 36v hailong battery with an integrated Kt controller. If I was to purchase your GSM CD motor would it work with this integrated controller?

 

I'm thinking about converting my mountain bike and I think mid drive will give me more low end torque for off road (through use of the gears), than I would get with the Yosepower hub motor.

the thread run over 168 pages since April 2016

I havn't read it myself and I wasn't suggesting reading the whole thing:eek:, just thought the more recent posts might hold some real time experiences from other users.

I havn't read it myself and I wasn't suggesting reading the whole thing:eek:, just thought the more recent posts might hold some real time experiences from other users.

the most recent posts were about 750W mods...

the guys on ES have never worried much about sticking to 15.5mph.

I'm still humming and hahhing... I would like the certainty of the Bafang as against the unknown quantity of the Tongsheng kit, but Andy and Tony at Whoosh seem to think it will suffice for my purpose. They are better equipped than most to advise, and I believe they are genuine in their advice, not driven by what makes the most profit for them. They would not be so active on here and so well respected here if that were the case.

They only seem to do the earlier Bafang stuff, there seems to be no BBs02 kit from them, and no hd kit either.

If I was to go for the Bafang I would plump for the hd kit as if I am getting an off-road only kit I may as well get one that does the job and more. That leads to a quandary with after-sales-service, my original concern and why I started this topic. I seem to be going round in circles!!!

 

If the TSDZ @48V is anything like my Yose hub @48V then in assist 5 it should make hills easy. Albeit my Yose can do 20a and the few hill climbs around me 10 -17% for about 500yds I can do at between 7.5 - 10mph with little more then gentle pedalling, the TSDZ should give more as it is torque sensing. Hubs are cadence so even if you give it the beans they don't multiply effort like torque drives.

 

I have been toying with getting the BMSB torque drive KT kit for my hub to try but the shipping kills it as it is 1/2 the cost of the kit alone.

PSWPower after sales service is terrible, it seems to be one Chinese lady who's job is mainly to deal with complaints by putting them off and questioning PSWPowers liability. I bought A 350w TSDZ kit from them after reading about PSWPower being a reputable Chinese company to deal with and when i received the kit i fitted it and then found the LCD display was faulty. I couldn't access the part of the menu That sets wheel size, MPH or KPH etc and when i complained(nicely of course) the response was very hostile, first it was my fault and i wasn't doing it right, so i had to send her a photo of the LCD and the error code it generated, i hadn't connected it right was the next excuse, FFS how can you connect one connection wrong. I requested a replacement at which point she said she had to consult the engineers at the factory. So far this had taken a month because i learnt very quickly that you have to be very precise in your emails to her and keep sentences very short and to the point and she would then take several days to a week before sending the reply. Eventually after about another 6 or 7 photos taken at the request of the factory, they asked me to return it at my expense which i did but i was not happy i can tell you.

They replaced it quite quickly after getting the defective LCD display, it only took about 3 weeks all told BUT it arrived broken, one of the nubbs that allow the display to swivel was snapped off and it was not repairable, Trust me if i could have repaired it I would have and i'm quite a handy guy, so after more Emails and photo's etc, my patience was exhausted at this point and i got quite cross(to no avail), they eventually agreed the return of the broken display(another £10 postage).Weeks later i got the replacement, it wasn't broken, but i dont know if it worked or not because they sent one with the wrong size lead. If you get the model with the brakes its a larger connector than the non brake version.

As you can imagine i was absolutely fuming, but you have to bite your tongue as the girl you are dealing with is only an employee and doing what she see's as her job, Anyway to cut a long story short, i refused to pay any more postage and they sent me the correct display with the correct lead and everything is fine now(i reinforced the nubbs with epoxy as insurance against them breaking), it only took five and a half months all told.

I deal with Chinese companies all the time and find them both courteous and accommodating especially when it come to saving me import charges etc BUT PSWPower is the worst by a very long chalk that i have had to deal with.

PSWPower after sales service is terrible, it seems to be one Chinese lady who's job is mainly to deal with complaints by putting them off and questioning PSWPowers liability. I bought A 350w TSDZ kit from them after reading about PSWPower being a reputable Chinese company to deal with and when i received the kit i fitted it and then found the LCD display was faulty. I couldn't access the part of the menu That sets wheel size, MPH or KPH etc and when i complained(nicely of course) the response was very hostile, first it was my fault and i wasn't doing it right, so i had to send her a photo of the LCD and the error code it generated, i hadn't connected it right was the next excuse, FFS how can you connect one connection wrong. I requested a replacement at which point she said she had to consult the engineers at the factory. So far this had taken a month because i learnt very quickly that you have to be very precise in your emails to her and keep sentences very short and to the point and she would then take several days to a week before sending the reply. Eventually after about another 6 or 7 photos taken at the request of the factory, they asked me to return it at my expense which i did but i was not happy i can tell you.

They replaced it quite quickly after getting the defective LCD display, it only took about 3 weeks all told BUT it arrived broken, one of the nubbs that allow the display to swivel was snapped off and it was not repairable, Trust me if i could have repaired it I would have and i'm quite a handy guy, so after more Emails and photo's etc, my patience was exhausted at this point and i got quite cross(to no avail), they eventually agreed the return of the broken display(another £10 postage).Weeks later i got the replacement, it wasn't broken, but i dont know if it worked or not because they sent one with the wrong size lead. If you get the model with the brakes its a larger connector than the non brake version.

As you can imagine i was absolutely fuming, but you have to bite your tongue as the girl you are dealing with is only an employee and doing what she see's as her job, Anyway to cut a long story short, i refused to pay any more postage and they sent me the correct display with the correct lead and everything is fine now(i reinforced the nubbs with epoxy as insurance against them breaking), it only took five and a half months all told.

I deal with Chinese companies all the time and find them both courteous and accommodating especially when it come to saving me import charges etc BUT PSWPower is the worst by a very long chalk that i have had to deal with.

 

Thank you for this post, I had pretty much decided now to go with a Whoosh kit, but this post has nailed it for me. This post from Whiteturbo confirms my suspicions formed from reading other threads in lots of forums about this Chinese company.

Thank you to everyone who have offered their helpful suggestions for me, I will report back here when I get the kit from Whoosh and fit it.

Tony

Slight hijack - Woosh I have a Yosepower kit which has a 36v hailong battery with an integrated Kt controller. If I was to purchase your GSM CD motor would it work with this integrated controller?

 

I'm thinking about converting my mountain bike and I think mid drive will give me more low end torque for off road (through use of the gears), than I would get with the Yosepower hub motor.

 

You can use the GSM but buy the motor without controller an option on the Woosh mid drive page.

Thanks Nealh - do you know if the connectors will fit without modification?

Thanks Nealh - do you know if the connectors will fit without modification?

the motor connector will fit standard 9-pin that your KT controller uses.

There is a common problem running KT controllers with the GSM. It's fiddly to get the parameter for the pedal sensor right. The GSM comes with a 4-pin PAS connector with two sets of Hall sensors. The KT only needs one, so you can cap the unused pin (there is a breakout cable for this) but even so, sometimes the KT interprets the signal wrongly. After you set it to have the motor starting when pedaling normally, it also starts the motor sometimes when turning the pedals backward at certain speed.

In that case, the best solution if to fit an external magnet disc to the left hand side.

If in doubt, take a picture of your bottom bracket with your bike upside down and send it to support@wooshbikes.co.uk

AK runs a gsm with KT, hopefully he can answer any queries !