congrats!

that's very neat work!

Right, tested the bike with both motors and kids.

 

What can I say. It’s awesome!

 

The TSDZ2 is very nice. Feels totally natural, like the Bosch equipped Riese & Müller cargo bike I tried.

It’s a bit noisy, there’s quite a whirl when pedalling, especially under load uphill. A bit annoying to be honest, especially compared to how silent the bike is otherwise.

 

The SWX02 is much more silent, just a faint buzz. Couldn’t use the cadence sensor - it won’t fit the non-drive crank on the TSDZ2. So had to test it with the throttle only.

 

I went a bit around town with the kids. Up the usual hills.

 

I’d say the TSDZ2 is “almost” enough. I say almost because it’s fine on the flats of course and fairly good climbing up. But it’s still hard work, all considered.

The 42T chainring (same as I had on before) on the bigger cog (36T) is good, wish I had a smaller ring though - though I have planned for a while to replace my 11-36 10spd cassette with a sunrace 11-42, or even 11-46 and keep the 42t chainring.

 

But when I’m puffing to get past the crossroad at the top of the hill, with the kid laughing, the magic happens: at the press of the throttle, the bike becomes suddenly very light, and I pedal uphill without risking a heart attack (I should say I’m quite fit, I train every day, so believe me when I say it’s hard work).

 

I modulated with the throttle and the combination of the two motors is obviously fantastic.

 

The SWX02 is definitely better than the TSDZ2 in the uphill pull. It almost manages to pull us three with no pedalling. Definitely on flats and gentle inclines, on the stepper hills it does need a bit of pedalling, but does the job better than the mod drive motor.

 

I am now in a weird position.

 

Do I keep both - and sort out a cadence sensor that fits where the TSDZ2 is, or sell the TSDZ2? Don’t like to noise from the mid drive. Also I believe it’s illegal to have a 2WD bike right?

 

But it’s nice to have both motors, would definitely help is some taught situations.

 

Well need to ride a bit more and then decide what’s best.

 

Some more pics - temporarily installation

Carrying a dead weight of a motor around certainly won't make inclines easier, you need to try the SWX02 with the PAS sensor so whip off the TDZS to try it. With 5 pas levels you won't need the throttle as PAS 5 gives full current like the throttle.

Carrying a dead weight of a motor around certainly won't make inclines easier, you need to try the SWX02 with the PAS sensor so whip off the TDZS to try it. With 5 pas levels you won't need the throttle as PAS 5 gives full current like the throttle.

 

Aye that’s my plan. Have a feeling don’t need the TSDZ2. It’s a nice motor though. Probably can resell it easily to somebody that got my same cargo bike.

 

Oh, meant to ask: the LCD3 shows crazy speeds!

As soon as the motor rotates, speed goes up to 65mph!

 

When I said the motor did 18mph on the flat I was reading the TSDZ2 display.

 

I did set the LCD up for a 20’’ wheel. Anything else I need to change?

The P1 setting try the value at about 84 and then use a GPS to see how far out it is.

The P1 setting try the value at about 84 and then use a GPS to see how far out it is.

Thanks, will do that tomorrow.

 

In fact, how about all the other settings, especially the C settings? Is there a guide somewhere to understand the way they work? I’ll be looking up also the parameters of my motor for setting things properly.

 

Cheers

Oh, meant to ask: the LCD3 shows crazy speeds!

As soon as the motor rotates, speed goes up to 65mph!

if you use the speed sensor of the TSDZ2 kit, the magnet needs to be placed 6mm-10mm from the sensor, farther = better. Too close, it's pick up spurious pulses.

if you use the speed sensor of the TSDZ2 kit, the magnet needs to be placed 6mm-10mm from the sensor, farther = better. Too close, it's pick up spurious pulses.

 

No, haven’t used the speed sensor of the TSDZ2. In fact to test both motors I used no cadence sensor on the SWX02. I thought the speed sensor is internal on the hub motor?

Probably have to adjust parameters as suggested above. Will report when done so ;-)

P1 is used to adjust lcd speed reading for accuracy.

P2 wheel speed pulse signal #1 for internal and ext sensor.

P3 PAS mode speed control or torque control.

P4 Throttle actuation, active or pedal first.

P5 Voltage mode, displays bar graph reading.

 

C1 PAS setting depends on disc type used.

C2 Phase order. 0 is default. Don't change as you can cause controller damage if it is already running perfectly.

C3 PAS ratio, depending on the setting.

#0 PAS will be 0 on start up.

#1 -5 if selected means default PAS level will be set on start up.

#8 Setting will remember the last PAS level used on start up.

C4 Throttle set up mode.

#0 full speed throttle.

#1 6km/h set .

#2 Spd limit specified.

C5 Current setting depends on version used.

#00/01 least current varying to #10 max current.

C6 Backlight brightness.

C7 Cruise off/on.

C8 Motor temp off/on. No temp sensor used so useless.

C9 Password setting to stop 3rd party operation.

C10 System restore.

C11 Communicatiin display, 0 for LCD3.

C12. LVC leave at #4 or above. #4 is 30v@36v or 40v@48v.

C13 ABS only of use for regen motors like D/D hubs.

C14 PAS signal strength, weak to strong.

Front hub motor now tested properly - can only say I’m super happy with it!

 

Slow on the flats, in fact I pedal faster than the motor pulls. But uphill it’s marvellous, just winches you up steady at 6-8 mph.

 

Now, got an issue with the PAS sensor. Since there’s no space between the cranks and BB (it’s a GXP) I did a clean install on the chainring side. Only to realise the sensor is directional and only works if I pedal backwards. Doh!

Is there any way to get this fixed by software?

 

I guess not....

Found this:

 

http://dillengerelectricbikes.co.uk/enthusiasts/grin-technologies/peripherals/pas-12p-chr-by-grin.html

 

Not sure it’d work with my controller, as it’s a quadrature sensor whereas mine obviously is a simple 3-wires sensor.

 

Man these little hiccups drive me crazy

OK this is my very sensor but made to work on the RH side:

 

KT-D12r

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F272864678672

 

Bit steep at £19.95 though

And one more post ;-P

 

Guess nothing can be done with this sensor to reverse the signal?

Edited August 23, 20196 yr by BidelloZ

If the pas works pedalling backwards you have to flip the magnet face over or remove each magnet and rotate the magnet so the correct pole is facing the sensor. Another option is to turn the sensor so the wire is at 180 degrees, this changes the sensor direction. Other wise transfer it as it is on to the LHS.

If the pas works pedalling backwards you have to flip the magnet face over or remove each magnet and rotate the magnet so the correct pole is facing the sensor. Another option is to turn the sensor so the wire is at 180 degrees, this changes the sensor direction. Other wise transfer it as it is on to the LHS.

Nope turning the magnet over does not work, the sensor is clearly handed. Those two little black parallel components on the sensor only generate a signal if the magnet moves from one side to the other, not the opposite (is this an hall sensor?).

 

I did try turning the sensor 180 degrees, it works but positioning is critical, needs to be almost against thr magnets for the field to reach the sensor on the other side, I can see the slight movement or alignment change would effectively inactivate it.

The dual sensor ones like you have can't be flipped. If you have a KT controller, you might be able to reverse it in the settings. You can do that on the latest ones. Other than that,you have to mount it onthe other side of the crank.

 

PS. I keep telling people not to buy these sensors. The cheapo 5, 8 and 10 magnet disc ones work perfectly and can be mounted on either side. Why make things complicated?

 

Also, you should always test a pedal sensor works before installing it. That willtell you the correct orientation so that you can install it the right way round first time instead of having to remove the cranks and everything when you get it the wrong way round. There's no point in installing it if it's not going to work, as in the above case.

The dual sensor ones like you have can't be flipped. If you have a KT controller, you might be able to reverse it in the settings. You can do that on the latest ones. Other than that,you have to mount it onthe other side of the crank.

 

PS. I keep telling people not to buy these sensors. The cheapo 5, 8 and 10 magnet disc ones work perfectly and can be mounted on either side. Why make things complicated?

 

Also, you should always test a pedal sensor works before installing it. That willtell you the correct orientation so that you can install it the right way round first time instead of having to remove the cranks and everything when you get it the wrong way round. There's no point in installing it if it's not going to work, as in the above case.

 

Aye I should have tested it before installing it, however no way this sensor is going on the left crank. I’m all for a clean installation and even if I did manage to get it on the left crank it’d look s*#te:D

 

It’s unfortunate I had no knowledge that these sensors are handed, and that the 5, 8 and 10 magnet ones are reversible.

 

Sure I could have asked that too but at the time of selecting the right components I never thought about which side of the cranks the sensor would have to go.

 

Well it is all part of the learning process right?

 

Will check if the controller can be set to use this sensor properly, otherwise I’ll get the correct sensor ;-)

Will check if the controller can be set to use this sensor properly, otherwise I’ll get the correct sensor ;-)

I usually use a drilled magnet disc and the normal sensor for bottom brackets with external bearings.

The magnet disc sticks itself to the ring bolts, after testing, use araldite or cableties to make it permanent.

 

I stock those drilled discs, made by King Meter (not this one in the picture which was hand drilled)

 

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/2019/hubkits/drilled-disc-pas.jpg

I usually use a drilled magnet disc and the normal sensor for bottom brackets with external bearings.

The magnet disc sticks itself to the ring bolts, after testing, use araldite or cableties to make it permanent.

 

I stock those drilled discs, made by King Meter (not this one in the picture which was hand drilled)

 

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/2019/hubkits/drilled-disc-pas.jpg

 

Oh so you’ve got the sensor for the right side?

 

Can I use my magnetic disc or have to fit yours?

 

Either way, can I have one?

One thing you could try. I haven'tdone it myself, but theory says it should work. You can prise out each magnet and reinsert it the other way up. Before starting, scratch a mark onto all the magnets on one side so that you don't get mixed up.

 

The magnets are just a tight fit in the plastic. It should be fairly straight forward to remove and reinsert them.

One thing you could try. I haven'tdone it myself, but theory says it should work. You can prise out each magnet and reinsert it the other way up. Before starting, scratch a mark onto all the magnets on one side so that you don't get mixed up.

 

The magnets are just a tight fit in the plastic. It should be fairly straight forward to remove and reinsert them.

Well flipping the whole disc would achieve the same, did that and makes no difference. The sensors are handed and don’t think there’s a way to change that, unless one knows how to tweak an electronic circuit that is

Well flipping the whole disc would achieve the same, did that and makes no difference. The sensors are handed and don’t think there’s a way to change that, unless one knows how to tweak an electronic circuit that is

No. To get the right signal, you need the right polarity travelling in the right direction. At the moment, you have one of the two right. When you flip it, you have the other one of the two right, but if you flip the magnets individually, you'll have both right or both wrong. Both wrong can then be solved by flipping the complete disc.

No. To get the right signal, you need the right polarity travelling in the right direction. At the moment, you have one of the two right. When you flip it, you have the other one of the two right, but if you flip the magnets individually, you'll have both right or both wrong. Both wrong can then be solved by flipping the complete disc.

OK, I will try that but I’m not convinced, besides makes no sense when it comes to Faraday’s laws.

Will report back and I actually hope I’m wrong :-)

No. To get the right signal, you need the right polarity travelling in the right direction. At the moment, you have one of the two right. When you flip it, you have the other one of the two right, but if you flip the magnets individually, you'll have both right or both wrong. Both wrong can then be solved by flipping the complete disc.

Rethinking this, you suggest that the magnets are arranger in a staggered array on the disc? Meaning, they are alternating north and south poles? If so, only half of the magnets should be flipped, so to obtain an asymmetric array = all north or south poles on one side of the disc.

Only if the disc is built with staggered poles of the magnets then by flipping half of the magnets we can achieve asymmetry and thus differentiate between the two faces of the disc.

 

I’m not good with electronics but I wonder whether the two hall sensors one next to another in the little device above are built in a circuitry in such way to differentiate between two directions. It would be easy to do that, by having the circuit transmit a signal only when the two hall sensors detect movement in one direction. Besides, both north and south poles of a magnet do generate a voltage in a hall sensor, albeit different.

 

Anyhow will experiment a bit, if anything for the sake of it;)

No. Mark all the magnets, then flip all of them individually.