February 23, 20251 yr I have set up a kit to be street legal in the UK with appropriate settings in the controller but is it legal? When I started the display showed the motor getting nearly 500 watts. The control panel died after 10-20 minutes use but would reset by switching the battery off and on. Fortunately this doesn't happen with UK legal restrictions: 250 watts max, 15.5 mph limit, disabled throttle and crank rotation before power assist starts.
February 24, 20251 yr I have set up a kit to be street legal in the UK with appropriate settings in the controller but is it legal? When I started the display showed the motor getting nearly 500 watts. The control panel died after 10-20 minutes use but would reset by switching the battery off and on. Fortunately this doesn't happen with UK legal restrictions: 250 watts max, 15.5 mph limit, disabled throttle and crank rotation before power assist starts. You can use as much power as you want with a 250w motor, but if you have a motor that's rated at more than 250w, it's illegal no matter how much power you restrict it to. To see if you're legal, look at the motor and see what's written on it. If it says 250w, you're home and dry. Anything else above that, you're out, and it there's nothing written on it, you'd need to provide proof that it's rated at 250w or less. Edited February 24, 20251 yr by saneagle
February 24, 20251 yr I have set up a kit to be street legal in the UK with appropriate settings in the controller but is it legal? When I started the display showed the motor getting nearly 500 watts. The control panel died after 10-20 minutes use but would reset by switching the battery off and on. Fortunately this doesn't happen with UK legal restrictions: 250 watts max, 15.5 mph limit, disabled throttle and crank rotation before power assist starts. Yep, as [mention=3847]saneagle[/mention] mentioned, the display showing the motor getting 500 watts (or more) is perfectly normal for a legal e-bike - it's the manufacturer's motor continuous rated power that counts. Again most legal e-bikes have settings that limit the maximum speed to 25 km/h, as long as this is done in the settings and there is no rider "off road" switch to override this, that is legal too
February 24, 20251 yr Author Yep, as [mention=3847]saneagle[/mention] mentioned, the display showing the motor getting 500 watts (or more) is perfectly normal for a legal e-bike - it's the manufacturer's motor continuous rated power that counts. Again most legal e-bikes have settings that limit the maximum speed to 25 km/h, as long as this is done in the settings and there is no rider "off road" switch to override this, that is legal too There are no markings on the hub motor except a quality control sticker. I have asked the manufacturer what it is rated at.
February 24, 20251 yr There are no markings on the hub motor except a quality control sticker. I have asked the manufacturer what it is rated at. What motor is it? Where did you get it from?
February 24, 20251 yr Battery output rating or lcd wattage rating is not illegal above 250w , as has been said if the motor is rated at 250w max continuous then it is legal. There are no rules saying one can't produce more then 250w just that the motor must be marked and rated at 250w . Other wise 36v controllers would have a max 6.95 a rating and 48v would have a max 5.2a rating, none then would be able to power an EAPC up a steep hill .
February 24, 20251 yr Afaik No diy e-bikes in the UK are 'legal' in the strictest sense simply as the regs make no room for a diy ebike, and only regulate off the shelf products. However to prosecute someone a BIG Deal Landmarking case will need to be made and tested in the courts. - So far no one seems keen on making this case with the police afaik relying on more traditional rules regarding lack of insurance etc to remove 'dangerous' machines from the streets. Until such a landmarking law case is made against a diy ebike builder to 'set the proverbial stage' . All us diy-ers can do is build within the spirit of the regs n keep out heads down If your bike conforms with the regs they wont have cause to take it..
February 24, 20251 yr Afaik No diy e-bikes in the UK are 'legal' in the strictest sense simply as the regs make no room for a diy ebike, and only regulate off the shelf products. However to prosecute someone a BIG Deal Landmarking case will need to be made and tested in the courts. - So far no one seems keen on making this case with the police afaik relying on more traditional rules regarding lack of insurance etc to remove 'dangerous' machines from the streets. Until such a landmarking law case is made against a diy ebike builder to 'set the proverbial stage' . All us diy-ers can do is build within the spirit of the regs n keep out heads down If your bike conforms with the regs they wont have cause to take it.. I don't agree with that. The Government makes it absolutely clear what an EAPC is and they also make it clear that EAPCs are exempt from motor vehicle regulations. You guys always try to make things more complicated than they are: An EAPC: must have pedals that can be used to propel it can have more than 2 wheels, for example a tricycle It can be propelled up to 15.5mph without pedalling but only if it’s been approved. Its electric motor: must have a ‘continuous rated power’ output of no more than 250 watts must not be able to propel the bike when it’s travelling at more than 15.5 miles per hour (mph) What your EAPC must show Markings on the bike must show both: the continuous rated power output the bike manufacturer It must also show either: the battery’s voltage the maximum speed the motor can propel the bike Where you can ride an EAPC If your bike is an EAPC then you can ride it on cycle paths and anywhere else pedal bikes are allowed. You cannot ride it on pavements. When your bike is not an EAPC If your electric bike does not meet the EAPC rules then it’s classed as a motorcycle or moped. Your bike is not an EAPC if it: can be propelled at more than 15.5 miles per hour (mph) by the motor has a continuous rated power output higher than 250 watts does not have pedals that can propel it If your bike is not an EAPC If your electric bike is not an EAPC it must be registered and taxed. You need to: get a valid driving licence to ride one wear a motorcycle helmet that meets British safety standards insure your vehicle If your bike is classed as a motorcycle or moped but has not been insured, you may get a fine or your bike may be seized by the police. Where you can ride if your bike is not an EAPC If your electric bike is not an EAPC then you: can only ride it on the road cannot ride it on cycle tracks or cycle lanes Regarding OP's question, he's out on two counts - labelling and motor rated power: Markings on the bike must show both: the continuous rated power output the bike manufacturer It must also show either: the battery’s voltage the maximum speed the motor can propel the bike Its electric motor: must have a ‘continuous rated power’ output of no more than 250 watts Edited February 24, 20251 yr by saneagle
February 24, 20251 yr Hope your right [mention=3847]saneagle[/mention], but ive had enough legal exposure to remain wary. My caution stems from the undefinable concept of a manufacturer of a converted eapc.. And without a manufacturer no labelling criteria can possibly be met. Hence the careful use of the 'Strictly' prefix above.
February 24, 20251 yr Hope your right [mention=3847]saneagle[/mention], but ive had enough legal exposure to remain wary. My caution stems from the undefinable concept of a manufacturer of a converted eapc.. And without a manufacturer no labelling criteria can possibly be met. Hence the careful use of the 'Strictly' prefix above. Most motors come with the manufacturer's name, the rated power and the voltage marked on them by label, silk screen marking or engraving. That's all you need. The battery also has a label with the voltage on it. Using logic, the only time the labelling comes into it is when there's suspicion that your motor is not 250w, like when it's the size of a dinner plate. They won't be interested if you have a motor the size of an AKM100. Edited February 24, 20251 yr by saneagle
February 24, 20251 yr Is there anything in the regulations\guidance that says the 'manufacturer' of the 'bike' must be a business of the type that's registered at Companies house or is someone who is VAT registered or registered as self employed etc ?
February 25, 20251 yr must have a ‘continuous rated power’ output of no more than 250 watts When did the government website change to this? It felt like fairly recently we were discussing how the gov.uk page is full of errors regarding ebike law.
February 25, 20251 yr When did the government website change to this? It felt like fairly recently we were discussing how the gov.uk page is full of errors regarding ebike law. This page says 'Updated 10 December 2024' https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrically-assisted-pedal-cycles-eapcs/electrically-assisted-pedal-cycles-eapcs-in-great-britain-information-sheet It includes have an electric motor with a maximum continuous rated power not exceeding 250 watts
February 25, 20251 yr When did the government website change to this? It felt like fairly recently we were discussing how the gov.uk page is full of errors regarding ebike law. It was just after the guy responsible for it read that thread on our forum. Maybe enough people from that thread clicked the button that says, "report a problem with this page". I did it ages ago.
February 25, 20251 yr Is there anything in the regulations\guidance that says the 'manufacturer' of the 'bike' must be a business of the type that's registered at Companies house or is someone who is VAT registered or registered as self employed etc ? I'd like to know this too, before I start The Guerney Bogus 10000W 250W Ebike Motor Company. Should I buy a bunch of stators magnets and copper wire for winding etc. and hire busy dwarves to make my shed factory look legit? Are elfs smaller than dwarves? Do elfs sleep less? How many would fit in my shed? 12ft(L)X6ft(W)X8ft(H). Of course, ORAC would run the company for deniability. Edited February 25, 20251 yr by guerney
February 25, 20251 yr Author I don't agree with that. The Government makes it absolutely clear what an EAPC is and they also make it clear that EAPCs are exempt from motor vehicle regulations. You guys always try to make things more complicated than they are: An EAPC: must have pedals that can be used to propel it can have more than 2 wheels, for example a tricycle It can be propelled up to 15.5mph without pedalling but only if it’s been approved. Its electric motor: must have a ‘continuous rated power’ output of no more than 250 watts must not be able to propel the bike when it’s travelling at more than 15.5 miles per hour (mph) What your EAPC must show Markings on the bike must show both: the continuous rated power output the bike manufacturer It must also show either: the battery’s voltage the maximum speed the motor can propel the bike Where you can ride an EAPC If your bike is an EAPC then you can ride it on cycle paths and anywhere else pedal bikes are allowed. You cannot ride it on pavements. When your bike is not an EAPC If your electric bike does not meet the EAPC rules then it’s classed as a motorcycle or moped. Your bike is not an EAPC if it: can be propelled at more than 15.5 miles per hour (mph) by the motor has a continuous rated power output higher than 250 watts does not have pedals that can propel it If your bike is not an EAPC If your electric bike is not an EAPC it must be registered and taxed. You need to: get a valid driving licence to ride one wear a motorcycle helmet that meets British safety standards insure your vehicle If your bike is classed as a motorcycle or moped but has not been insured, you may get a fine or your bike may be seized by the police. Where you can ride if your bike is not an EAPC If your electric bike is not an EAPC then you: can only ride it on the road cannot ride it on cycle tracks or cycle lanes Regarding OP's question, he's out on two counts - labelling and motor rated power: Markings on the bike must show both: the continuous rated power output the bike manufacturer It must also show either: the battery’s voltage the maximum speed the motor can propel the bike Its electric motor: must have a ‘continuous rated power’ output of no more than 250 watts Thanks for that. With regard to the bike in question: - The bike manufacturers name is on the trike frame. - The e-kit manufacturers name is on the battery pack along with a bar code which reveals it was made in 2014. It also states it is a 36V battery. - The motor is unmarked. The manufacturer says it is a 250W continuous rated motor and I could permanently mark it myself. Not sure that would satisfy an inspection by those who have that authority. - The maximum speed of the system is displayed by cycling through the three users displays. However it can be programmed to be more than 15.5 mph. - The throttle has been disabled in the set up. - Pedalling is require to enable power assist. - It does have a walk assist feature which is permitted on an EPAC, I believe.
February 25, 20251 yr Author There are no markings on the hub motor except a quality control sticker. I have asked the manufacturer what it is rated at. The manufacturer assures me that it is a 250 watt motor.
February 25, 20251 yr Author What motor is it? Where did you get it from? It came fitted to a second hand trike. The manufacturer assures me it is 250W motor. My original question is generic. It could be any manufacturers unmarked motor.
February 25, 20251 yr my bosch bike is 250w @15mph under the speed limit the motor could be 2kw it just has to cut out at the speed limit. with a dongle to remove the speed limit i can hit 39mph on the flat but it does not give me anymore amps from the controller. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayJWkFYr63E:135
February 26, 20251 yr It came fitted to a second hand trike. The manufacturer assures me it is 250W motor. My original question is generic. It could be any manufacturers unmarked motor. As long as you keep a copy of the listing or any communications with the seller or manufacturer that confirms 250w, you should be OK. Don't show them any settings in your LCD. Just let them do any test they want to see if the motor assists over 15.5. mph. If your motor is a normal geared one, no problem, but if it's a direct drive dinner plate sized one, they probably know they're not 250w.
February 26, 20251 yr Well exactly, so if you do an electric conversion on a 'bike' to comply with regulations\guidance do you just need to put a label on the bike listing yourself as the 'Manufacturer' for the conversion to be legal ?
February 26, 20251 yr I think when you ask 'How Legal is a kit......', you need to distinguish between 1.Legal to Manufacture 2. Legal to retail/sell (business or private / domestic or import, new/used etc.) and 3. Legal to own/use on private land etc 4. Legal to use on a public road. etc....etc
February 26, 20251 yr I think when you ask 'How Legal is a kit......', you need to distinguish between 1.Legal to Manufacture 2. Legal to retail/sell (business or private / domestic or import, new/used etc.) and 3. Legal to own/use on private land etc 4. Legal to use on a public road. etc....etc The only thing that matters is whether the bike you put it on becomes an EAPC or not, and the definition for that is given above in this thread. In reality, who has a private estate that they want to ride around on an ebike? It's guys like Simon Cowell, who soon learn to regret it, anyway. It's not us.
February 26, 20251 yr All that matters is the motor is 250w compliant , how much power the user puts through it is irrelevent . Put too much power through it and the nylon gears will fail.
February 26, 20251 yr Makes me wonder why YOSE have locked there 250W kits now in the controller so One can not access the advance settings so the kit is locked at 15.5 MPH and 4MPH on the thumb throttle . I asked them if it could be changed any way No unless you put on a different controller. Ok if an off road switch is not legal then one has a controller and LCD like I have that all you have to do is press the settings button with no password protection and change the speed . Could it be just arguable that this is the same as an off road switch ? I think it could be especially in a Magistrate court As it can be done in seconds once stopped. when I mixed and matched a YOSE kit with a Carrera Suntours motor 250W the bike could easily do 25MPH if it was set to do so .
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