Now I totally agree with Eddie , it's not something I would buy.

Let people make their own decisions.

Over 1 million cars are not insured. You try claiming off them if they hit you.

The courts are toothless like some of our forum .

2 for 1 deal at aldi for steradent fill your boots boys

Now I totally agree with Eddie , it's not something I would buy.

Let people make their own decisions.

Over 1 million cars are not insured. You try claiming off them if they hit you.

The courts are toothless like some of our forum .

2 for 1 deal at aldi for steradent fill your boots boys

 

Cant compare apples and pears, neither do two wrongs make one right..

 

Bikes like the HS Kakhoffs and Bosch bikes and some of the more esoteric (expensive) bikes that you own and are interested in are SAFE, they are designed and built for road use at high speeds.

The illegal bike thing has been argued to death so many times that we are never going to reach an agreement over the issue or persuade each other to alter our views.

 

All that people who argue against illegal bike are concerned about is that the use of those illegal bikes will eventually have an adverse effect on them through more stringent regulation. The legal bike owners probably feel that this would be unjust because they have done nothing wrong, they have in fact stayed within the law, but feel that the actions of others who use bikes illegally, have put their freedoms at risk.

 

I don't think that there is any hint of self righteousness, do-gooding or of wanting to spoil anyones fun, it just that people don't want to suffer due to the actions of others. There is nothing wrong in that.

 

I appreciate that forum members come from all walks of life, so there there are bound to be people on here who are far too stupid to understand this point of view. If you are one of them, that's OK, its not your fault.

Edited June 29, 201213 yr by tillson

Leeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaavvvvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeeeee it. Yeah.

 

 

 

(Though if I'm ever in Banbury I wouldn't mind a test ride on one of those bikes.)

Lets make this very clear - it is not illegal to purchase a kitchen knife but very illegal to stab someone with it. If Tesco stop selling them they may not publicly call ASDA a bunch of selfish idiots without being dragged though the courts

 

....Very true, but if the advertising on the knives packaging encouraged young people to buy them on the strength that the knife could be used to kill someone, I think that Tesco would quickly stop selling them and would be within their rights to criticise other stores that continued to market them in this way.

 

This forum is accessible all over the world; do you not think that readers / contributers from other countries with different legeslation get bored stiff reading all these threads that degenerate into discussions about adhearance to UK law?

 

 

 

Really?.....I thought the forum was Croydon centric:confused:

Not sure how my comments were taken but lets get this straight. I have absolutely no problems with someone selling bikes that are not for road use if they make that perfectly clear.

 

I do have a problem with them putting things in their advertising that seem to be activily encouraging the people who buy them to then use them illegally (otherwise why stick a 250w sticker on a 1500w motor ?)

Edited June 29, 201213 yr by GaRRy

Frank of Xipi signed himself off as agreeing with me that he is a selfish idiot. Why does this matter,well parts of this forum seem to be the core customers of these illegal bikes and responses to my posting appear to endorse that,although I must say that the number of supporters of these illegal machines seems to be reducing,maybe shame is keeping them away.

Why does this matter-you only have to look at the kit car industry over the last 10 years. At one time almost unregulated,then there was a fatal accident with a powerful kit car and SVA inspection was introduced costing £400 per vehicle,now upgraded to IVA costing almost £700 per vehicle....it took all the independent designs away,the smaller companies went bust overnight and building a kit car became a complex and expensive project,the industry has changed into a smaller number of bigger players and is now a much smaller industry.

The obvious government knee-jerk reaction would be all e-bikes would have to have EN15194,that will happen anyway but an accident would sure hasten matters. Ironically that would be good for the likes of Kudos,Wisper,Ebco etc because all our bikes already meet EN15194 but the smaller companies would struggle to meet the costs involved.

What I cannot understand about manufacturing illegal bikes is that it makes no business sense. The market for illegals must be small,there is no growth potential,no insurer is ever going to cover them for product and public liability insurance and the risk of being sued heavily is very high.

Franks advert describes the new Xipi as a Commuter bike with 1500 watts,I just cannot see how you can commute to work on private land(note not off-road the land must be private)? Also the mention that the motor has only 250 watts marked upon it is clear to all that this suggests that if you deristrict to 1500 watts it would still appear as 250 watts-this would be cannon fodder to any half decent prosecution barrister.

I have become quite passionate about these e-bikes,I enjoy the engineering challenge of getting the maximum performance within the constraints of EN15194 and the market is growing rapidly-Kudos despatched over 70 bikes last week. It would be a real shame if a few selfish idiots spoilt the business and the fun for the majority.

Dave

Kudoscycles

Over 1 million cars are not insured. You try claiming off them if they hit you.

The courts are toothless like some of our forum .

 

.....and it ****es me off...I don't have a car, I have a camper 'van and a bike,

Last year the 'van was on the road on exactly 24 days out of a possible 365.

...less than 100 hours out of a possible 9000 hours, yet it still costs me an arm and a leg to run it legally.

I seriously resent the fact that the government does not come down hard on un-licensed ...un-taxed

...un-insured drivers who often killing innocent people.

 

.....any vehicle not complying with the law should be crushed.

Ahhhh.... camper van man, It all becomes crystal clear

Lets make this very clear - it is not illegal to purchase a kitchen knife but very illegal to stab someone with it.

 

The responsibilty to use ANY device within the realms of the law lies with the buyer/user.

 

I have no position regarding Frank or Xipi Kirstin, but the situation with e-bikes is different from any of the comparisons you make.

 

There is a responsibility on the manufacturer/supplier of an e-bike intended for use in public in the UK to make it conform to strict power and speed limits, both EAPC and EU specified. If they do not, it is a motor vehicle and not an e-bike and to offer it as an e-bike is misrepresentation.

 

There is no equivalence for other products, cars are not power or speed limited and with those it is the user who bears the burden for obtaining a licence to use them and their subsequent correct use. Equally knives are not limited in respect of blade length, width etc and it's only their usage that is legislated for.

Ahhhh.... camper van man, It all becomes crystal clear

 

.....bollocks

.....bollocks

 

Do your parents know that you are out?

.....bollocks

 

Indeed.......I am really happy that Indalo explained how I could block these pea brained numptys...life is so much more enjoyable

Indeed.......I am really happy that Indalo explained how I could block these pea brained numptys...life is so much more enjoyable

 

You and Mike aren't related, are you???

 

Blimey, everytime I start a thread it seems to end in a mass difference of opinion

Firstly may I state that I have never seen a Xipi bike in the flesh much less ridden one. I have never met Frank at Xipi or spoken with him.

 

He also spends much time providing valuable advice to those who have no interest in purhcasing from him and often reccomends other suppliers

 

It is not illegal to sell them and he does nothing wrong. Its all about the buyers and find the comments from Kudos misguided and worrying. I had been seriously considering puchasing from them but woulkdnt dream of it after this

 

Just to put the other side of the argument, it could be argued that Kudos have adopted an ethical sales strategy in that they only sell legal bikes. In doing this and in the interests of the long term future of ebikes as we currently know them, they have probably denied themselves a few extra sales. A commendable course of action and one which any potential purchaser would be wise to factor into their buying decision.

 

Personally, I don't think it is very clever to strap a load of cheap Chinese junk to a mediocre bike and to then make up for the shortcomings in such a contraption by boosting the power to excess. A well engineered bike which exploits technology within the constraints of current legislation is a much more praiseworthy and impressive creation.

You and Mike aren't related, are you???

 

Fordulike and vectra.....If you wish to receive concise, well worded, arguementative comment in response then you must stop posting childish, inane and completely pointless posts.

 

.....Mike

Blimey, everytime I start a thread it seems to end in a mass difference of opinion

 

Variety is the spice of life :-)

 

Personally I love these threads.

 

People can tootle around on their under powered, low speed bikes and take an age to get to work - I don't care - if that's what they want from an ebike then fine.

 

I'll happily continue getting to work quicker on my ebike than I can drive there in the car, happy and secure in the knowledge there is pretty much zero chance of anyone being able to stop me. If it really was a big issue for the government, then surely I'd have been stopped now? Especially the two coppers on bikes that I overtook on the way home last week, one of them calling over "wish I had a battery" as I went past whilst he was puffing into a headwind

Edited June 29, 201213 yr by amigafan2003

I think the law is at fault with double standards, most cars have the ability to break the national speed limit but you never hear of restricting engines etc, but because e-bikes has no vested interest to lobby on there behalf, they become victims of the over-regulators thats sadly infest our NANNY STATE !

Fordulike and vectra.....If you wish to receive concise, well worded, arguementative comment in response then you must stop posting childish, inane and completely pointless posts.

 

.....Mike

 

 

Mike, when you eventually tire of childish, inane comment from those few, amoral members of this otherwise decent forum, I suggest you make use of the ignore facility. Forum life is a much more agreeable experience when you don't have to read the opinions and ignorant drivel promulgated by those who boast about lawbreaking and their pathetic attempts to justify their behaviour.

 

It works for me and I'd recommend to all who find my opinions disagreeable that they do likewise.

 

Indalo

I think the law is at fault with double standards, most cars have the ability to break the national speed limit but you never hear of restricting engines etc, but because e-bikes has no vested interest to lobby on there behalf, they become victims of the over-regulators thats sadly infest our NANNY STATE !

 

Just wait till you come off, or a car pulls out in front of you as you travel at 30 mph. I have more than my fair share of spills on a motorbike at those speeds and if your lucky you limp away and thats with leathers and a good helmet. Mopeds are restricted to 30 mph and to think that ebikes should be allowed to go as fast or faster is a disaster waiting to happen

Just wait till you come off, or a car pulls out in front of you as you travel at 30 mph. I have more than my fair share of spills on a motorbike at those speeds and if your lucky you limp away and thats with leathers and a good helmet. Mopeds are restricted to 30 mph and to think that ebikes should be allowed to go as fast or faster is a disaster waiting to happen

 

The fact is a lot of fit cyclist can reach those speeds without the benefit of electrical assistance so why should that be any difference. I think there should be speed limits for bikes on roads, and lower speed limits for cycle lanes. There should be the same trust shown, that is given to motorist, to observe the law ,and penallties for those that don't it will make the law consistent

Edited June 29, 201213 yr by jazper53

There is no trust!.......motorists need training, a license, insurance, tax and number plates!

Edited June 29, 201213 yr by eddieo

I think the law is at fault with double standards, most cars have the ability to break the national speed limit but you never hear of restricting engines etc, but because e-bikes has no vested interest to lobby on there behalf, they become victims of the over-regulators thats sadly infest our NANNY STATE !

 

This is completely untrue as I so often point out. Cars are not restricted since their drivers are trained and tested before being able to use them. In addition they have to have insurance to protect third parties and they are easily traceable in the event of anything going wrong.

 

E-bikes can be ridden by anyone without any training or test of competence, they usually have no third party insurance protection and they are untraceable. Therefore the e-bike has to be controlled to safe bicycle type levels in the absence of the public safeguards that motor vehicles have.