If the criticism of a bike was fair and accurate then that surely is good for business-for example one of the testers and a magazine both criticised the seat post length and chainring size on our Secret bike. For 2013 a telescopic seat post has been designed for taller riders and a 52T chainring will up the gearing,without the input from this site those changes would not have been implemented.

Dave

Kudoscycles

If the criticism of a bike was fair and accurate then that surely is good for business-for example one of the testers and a magazine both criticised the seat post length and chainring size on our Secret bike. For 2013 a telescopic seat post has been designed for taller riders and a 52T chainring will up the gearing,without the input from this site those changes would not have been implemented.

Dave

Kudoscycles

 

Correct and if the critism is not fair and accurate the best course of action is to prove that its wrong. Not insult the poster and then when it goes even more pear shaped go crying to admin to get the posts remove/edited/users banned etc.

If the criticism of a bike was fair and accurate then that surely is good for business-for example one of the testers and a magazine both criticised the seat post length and chainring size on our Secret bike. For 2013 a telescopic seat post has been designed for taller riders and a 52T chainring will up the gearing,without the input from this site those changes would not have been implemented.

Dave

Kudoscycles

 

I would have thought so, as long as the criticism was fair and reasonable.

 

Personally I have a problem with those few vendors who seek to mislead, both because I think it's morally unacceptable and also because correcting the misapprehensions they create absorbs time and effort that I'd rather spend doing something more constructive.

 

In this case I've not see a shred of evidence to suggest that the critical comments raised about the ebike in question were anything other than fair and reasonable.

I would have thought so, as long as the criticism was fair and reasonable.

 

Personally I have a problem with those few vendors who seek to mislead, both because I think it's morally unacceptable and also because correcting the misapprehensions they create absorbs time and effort that I'd rather spend doing something more constructive.

 

In this case I've not see a shred of evidence to suggest that the critical comments raised about the ebike in question were anything other than fair and reasonable.

 

Fair comments Jeremy, it would be nice if you could identify the vendors in question and/or the misleading information.

 

Unfortunately, as you are virtually gagged and unable to share this with other members, how will we know:confused:

Fair comments Jeremy, it would be nice if you could identify the vendors in question and/or the misleading information.

 

Unfortunately, as you are virtually gagged and unable to share this with other members, how will we know:confused:

 

It's a good point, and I did collate a fair bit of information on this very topic a few weeks ago, when looking around at ebikes that were available and that might meet the needs of a lady who lives in the village. At that time I was in two minds as to whether to name names, but decided that, on balance, it probably wasn't appropriate. That thread was already attracting comment that I was only out to stir things up, so naming names would have only inflamed things.

 

I took the view then that if a particular ebike was being discussed in another thread, and if the information that I'd gathered might be on-topic, then I'd go public with it, but otherwise I'd hold back.

 

As you rightly say, it now seems that it may be wise to not be too specific on here about those who have misleading advertising material.

Unfortunately, as you are virtually gagged and unable to share this with other members, how will we know

 

Theres always the 'other place', where interesting posts could be linked to

It's a good point, and I did collate a fair bit of information on this very topic a few weeks ago, when looking around at ebikes that were available and that might meet the needs of a lady who lives in the village. At that time I was in two minds as to whether to name names, but decided that, on balance, it probably wasn't appropriate. That thread was already attracting comment that I was only out to stir things up, so naming names would have only inflamed things.

 

I took the view then that if a particular ebike was being discussed in another thread, and if the information that I'd gathered might be on-topic, then I'd go public with it, but otherwise I'd hold back.

 

As you rightly say, it now seems that it may be wise to not be too specific on here about those who have misleading advertising material.

 

As far as Cyclezee is concerened Jeremy, you can write what you like as long as it is not libelous, I welcome constructive criticism and have a thick skin.

 

If people have a problem with something, I want to hear about it so that I can rectify or explain.

Theres always the 'other place', where interesting posts could be linked to

 

I've been wondering about this for Eddie's contributions, since his research on the German market and drawing to our attention the range of wonderful e-bikes there is going to be greatly missed now. I don't suppose his reminders about buying direct from there as he has done is popular among the UK's suppliers though.

Theres always the 'other place', where interesting posts could be linked to

 

Interestingly I've been in touch with Eddie via ES since his ban from here, so there is that possibility. ES is very much focussed on DIY and higher powered ebikes though, with very little discussion on EU legal ebikes, if any.

 

I also find it amusing that the mild comments made here that resulted in this ban wouldn't even merit a raised eyebrow on ES.

 

Perhaps some here could benefit from spending some time with our more direct friends across the other side of the Atlantic to rub off some of their hypersensitivity......................

Perhaps some here could benefit from spending some time with our more direct friends across the other side of the Atlantic to rub off some of their hypersensitivity......................

 

I practically live on ES :-)

 

I'm generally a consumer on there though rather than a contributor, as most ES'ers aren't interested in my low speed, low powered ebike

Perhaps some here could benefit from spending some time with our more direct friends across the other side of the Atlantic to rub off some of their hypersensitivity......................

 

Indeed, some forums there could render some of our more sensitive souls catatonic.

I practically live on ES :-)

 

I'm generally a consumer on there though rather than a contributor, as most ES'ers aren't interested in my low speed, low powered ebike

 

I know what you mean, my ebikes aren't mainstream on ES, as they are only around 1kW or so...................

 

A lot of that is because much of the US allows 750W, and a fair few countries have no limits at all. ES is also massively multicultural now, with members coming from all around the world, which means only a few come from the EU with it's low power limit. Last time I checked there were members there from around 25 different countries, with discussions being live 24 hours a day because someone, somewhere in the world, will always be awake and logged on to ES, it's that global.

It's a fact of life that most internet forums are businesses. They cost money to run and generate an income for those that set them up. Forum members are, in effect, just like unpaid workers. The contributions we make (voluntarily) add value by attracting a wider readership, which then makes the site more attractive to advertisers.

 

It's a simple business model that works well, which is why forums are now bought and sold, often for fairly large sums of money. Some of the bigger forums, such as those originally started by car enthusiasts for example, change hands for surprisingly large sums and generate a great deal of advertising revenue.

 

Pedelecs.co.uk Information

 

1. Also from another web analysis site the main majority of visitors come from the UK, America and of all places Russia.

 

2. The host server for pedelecs is in Germany.

Edited January 30, 201313 yr by shemozzle999

Interesting.

 

Jerry

Very interesting.

 

So, according to that web site advertising income from ES (which doesn't carry advertising as a point of principle) could possibly generate around $ 29,318.47 a year, and this forum could generate around $9,013.22 a year from advertising revenue.

 

Given that the amount of work needed to set up and maintain a forum isn't that great, and that even a lot of revenue generating forums use unpaid volunteer moderators to reduce the owners workload, it seem that running a handful of forums could be a nice little side line earner.

 

Makes one realise that being critical of advertisers who sponsor sites can have a direct hit on the site owners income.

would I be causing offence to ask what ES stands for?

Its the other place... lol

 

Endless-sphere.com • Index page

would I be causing offence to ask what ES stands for?

 

"Electric Speeeeed"

 

Jerry

would I be causing offence to ask what ES stands for?

 

'Tis a big electric bike forum, but very global, rather than UK only. It's very roughly three times the size of this forum, and more active than here because of that.

 

It tends not to discuss low powered EU legal type ebikes, though.

Interestingly I've been in touch with Eddie via ES since his ban from here, so there is that possibility. ES is very much focussed on DIY and higher powered ebikes though, with very little discussion on EU legal ebikes, if any.

 

I also find it amusing that the mild comments made here that resulted in this ban wouldn't even merit a raised eyebrow on ES.

 

Perhaps some here could benefit from spending some time with our more direct friends across the other side of the Atlantic to rub off some of their hypersensitivity......................

 

 

Thats all well and good , but lets just remember here that this ban was not purely over the most recent thread, as we all well know.

 

Personally I enjoyed a lot of their collective posts, Im certainly not hypersensitive and I dont think many people on here actually are.

 

As far as I was concerned eddieo could ridicule Tonaro, for example, till the cows came home I just thought the only thing he was showing up with his attitude was himself.

 

Its one thing getting annoyed and having a tiff , that happens everywhere, but I certainly dont find it amusing when banter turns to personal insults and downright rudeness, the like of which was seen from eddieo previously on several occasions..........mild,yes, sometimes, but many other times, it certainly wasnt......

and they got banned for it, reinstated then warned about it.....just how many warnings do some people expect.

 

I find it amazing that some people seem to think that hiding behind an anonymous computer is an excuse to say exactly what you like with no regard to other people.

 

Some forums I know of are a lot more strict about members behaviour than this one, treat other members with disrespect....and you are out.....no messing.

 

I dont know if people on ES resort to personal insults or not, but if so then thats to their detriment and surely no need for us to follow their lead.....maybe we are just more intrinsically polite here in the UK.....

 

It cant be beyond the realms of possibilities to expect criticisms to be kept to bike related topics and keep personal insults to either the playground......or face to face if anyone is that way inclined.

 

And at the end of the day, it doesnt matter WHAT is allowed on other forums, we only have to concern ourselves with what will be tolerated, or not, on this one.

 

Lynda

No ES doesn't allow personal insults.

 

The problem here is that what many might see as harmless banter, others will see as an insult. If I'm perfectly honest there are things you've posted here, Lynda, that have made my hackles rise to a far greater extent than anything that Eddie's ever posted. You had a serious poke at me not too long ago, for example, which I have to say did seem at the time to be a borderline insult from my perspective.

 

My lack of reaction to Eddies style of posting may well be because I've just had a couple of years longer to get used to it, or it may well be that I spent most of my working life working very closely with the military, where his brand of banter is the norm (if anything I'd say his was mild, by that standard). For example, if I wasn't greeted by a few choice insults when walking into the crew room in the morning I'd have wondered what was wrong with everyone.

 

It's all well and good to say that his banning now was as a consequence of past apparent transgressions, but is that reasonable? Punishment long after an event, and with no warning, is not considered reasonable by most, I would have thought.

Its one thing getting annoyed and having a tiff , that happens everywhere, but I certainly dont find it amusing when banter turns to personal insults and downright rudeness, the like of which was seen from eddieo previously on several occasions..........mild,yes, sometimes, but many other times, it certainly wasnt......

and they got banned for it, reinstated then warned about it.....just how many warnings do some people expect.

 

I will take your word for this Lynda as I really cant be bothered with reading a load of old posts to see what you mean. However as I understand it these warnings and bans were for being offensive/insulting and as you say down right obnoxious. Yet they seem to of been banned for upsetting a supplier/manufacturer/importer.

 

Yet I dont remember anything remotely offensive/insulting or obnoxious in their posts in the threads under discussion. So as far as I can see even if they have committed some form of offence recently (As I say cant see what). What has the offence got in common with what they were warned about to warrant a ban ?.

Edited January 30, 201313 yr by GaRRy

'Tis a big electric bike forum, but very global, rather than UK only. It's very roughly three times the size of this forum, and more active than here because of that.

 

It tends not to discuss low powered EU legal type ebikes, though.

 

I've been keeping an eye on the Speedict thread Over There & it seems the ozzies' adoption of Eurospec is generating some interest in low-power ebikes & the tweaking thereof.

No ES doesn't allow personal insults.

 

The problem here is that what many might see as harmless banter, others will see as an insult. If I'm perfectly honest there are things you've posted here, Lynda, that have made my hackles rise to a far greater extent than anything that Eddie's ever posted. You had a serious poke at me not too long ago, for example, which I have to say did seem at the time to be a borderline insult from my perspective.

 

My lack of reaction to Eddies style of posting may well be because I've just had a couple of years longer to get used to it, or it may well be that I spent most of my working life working very closely with the military, where his brand of banter is the norm (if anything I'd say his was mild, by that standard). For example, if I wasn't greeted by a few choice insults when walking into the crew room in the morning I'd have wondered what was wrong with everyone.

 

It's all well and good to say that his banning now was as a consequence of past apparent transgressions, but is that reasonable? Punishment long after an event, and with no warning, is not considered reasonable by most, I would have thought.

 

Sorry if you have thought I have almost insulted you in the past Jeremy.

 

Yes, we all make each others hackles rise at times and as we have said that is normal in 'forum land '

 

The fact is they did have several warnings and not that long ago were told publicly by Russ that they were on their final warning and if he thought they had overstepped the mark again they would be out...without further warning.......you cant be clearer than that I dont think and in fact it was also a general warning to all of us to watch what we said.

 

Maybe he thought that the post was started deliberately with the intention of flaming........

 

Lynda

I will take your word for this Lynda as I really cant be bothered with reading a load of old posts to see what you mean. However as I understand it these warnings and bans were for being offensive/insulting and as you say down right obnoxious. Yet they seem to of been banned for upsetting a supplier/manufacturer/importer.

 

Yet I dont remember anything remotely offensive/insulting or obnoxious in their posts in the threads under discussion. So as far as I can see even if they have committed some form of offence recently (As I say cant see what). What has the offence got in common with what they were warned about to warrant a ban ?.

 

Well......as Russ has said, we arent privy to all the facts so theres not really any point in speculating the whys and wherefores.....as I said above maybe the thread was perceived to have been started to be deliberately flaming.........

 

Lynda