so traders can be banned..?? How many warnings do you need before being banned and it isn't very transparent is it? You should have an appeals procedure hey or how about a poll!!!!?? I vote we ban a trader.. Throw a die and let's see whi it should be. i say we ban admin for a week for being a naughty boy!

 

bring back the boys!!!!!! ring back free wanton technical advice that assists members of the pulic make nformed choices!!

 

For admin:

If I called you a muppet would I get a warning or be banned?

 

 

Im sorry wissy but, with all due respect, you are not in possession of all the facts.

 

The men involved had been warned many times for various things that its not constructive to bring up again now. I dont know exactly everything that has been said by them this time....and nor do I want to.

 

This is a good forum that has occasional spats that sometimes have gone too far, there is a wealth of knowledge on here and plenty of technical advice freely available and given by many members who are not traders.......and by many who ARE......so, no need to bring it back....its still here

 

You yourself have seen, in the short time you have been here, how much advice has been given by forum members to try to help you make an informed choice.

 

As members of this forum we have to abide by the forum rules, there have been times, I admit, that I have been frustrated at a perceived lack of moderation.............and at times been relieved at it

 

The good far outweighs the bad in my opinion, there are some amazing people on here who give up hours of their time to help newcomers and anyone else who has a query, and I have been, and still am, grateful for what I have learnt and am still learning.

 

I hope you manage to test ride some bikes very soon and let us know how you get on.

 

Lynda

Well, a complete thread for a start................

 

AFAICS, there was nothing in that thread that could possibly have got you, as site owner, into any sort of legal hot water whatsoever, and there was nothing in it that was offensive. Sure it was critical of what many have seen as an overly heavy-handed bit of one-sided censorship and moderation, but is disagreeing with the views of the web site owner a valid reason for total censorship? Not in my book, and not something that would be entertained on Endless Sphere, even by the most severe of the moderation team there.

 

The value to your advertisers, as you know far better than I, comes from the honest opinions given here, and the exposure they get to a community that is a focus for their potential customer base. Bias, even if only perceived bias, will undermine that value, particularly if people go to other, far bigger and more influential ebike forums and reveal what seems (from the perspective of some ordinary members) to be going on here.

 

Jeremy,

 

That thread was created with the sole intention of inflaming this situation. As I've already said to you, you are not in sight of the full facts. That's really all I can say.

i may be accused if not having all the facts but who really does?

 

i still disagree with banning people who are being EXTREMELY useful in this forum and my 'newness' should not diminish my opinion on matters now should it? Is there a rating now for opinion values correlating to time spent here? perhaps the argument should apply or be slanted towards 'newbies' who are likely not to be biased in any way from having made friendships or foes in disagreements in a forum over times.

 

My sit in continues. I have now got a flag (a proper one ie a Welsh one ) and am starting my boycott now.

Wissy,

 

Funkylyn (above) is spot on.

 

You've had a good say on this topic, so maybe it's time to sit back and relax.

 

And don't go calling the admin Muppets - Kermit might sue you for defamation.

i am sitting .. I am doing a sit in.

 

Ps I disagree with you.

I am not aware of all the circumstances but a private email made public needs permission of the sender, is that correct and is it illegal to post ?

 

No, not at all. Once you've sent a correspondence to someone, either by letter, email or whatever, then it is out in the open, unless you specifically enter into a contract (i.e. a non-disclosure agreement) with the recipient.

 

There is a mass of precedent to prove this, private letters were often bound and sold as books, for example. What's more, email is unencrypted and free to be read by anyone, so is regarded, in law, as public, not private, correspondence. You may have noticed that companies often include a disclaimer as an email footer pointing out that email is insecure and can easily be misdirected.

Sending an email is like putting a post card in a royal mail post box

 

PS Never a dull moment on this forum lmao

 

Jerry

i may be accused if not having all the facts but who really does?

 

i still disagree with banning people who are being EXTREMELY useful in this forum and my 'newness' should not diminish my opinion on matters now should it? Is there a rating now for opinion values correlating to time spent here? perhaps the argument should apply or be slanted towards 'newbies' who are likely not to be biased in any way from having made friendships or foes in disagreements in a forum over times.

 

My sit in continues. I have now got a flag (a proper one ie a Welsh one ) and am starting my boycott now.

 

 

Well, wissy, while you are enjoying your sit in and boycott (of what ? ) might I suggest that you use your time constructively and start reading through posts starting on here from, ooh, lets say, maybe 17 or so months ago and then maybe you might start to see how "EXTREMELY useful" certain, now banned, people have been on this forum in the past.

 

Thats not to say that they havent been useful, helpful and indeed amusing, at times, but when I said you dont have all the facts, I mean you dont know the history behind all this.

 

Though I still think your time could be used better by test riding bikes to find one that suits you......that is, after all, why you joined.

 

Have fun

 

Lynda

Jeremy,

 

That thread was created with the sole intention of inflaming this situation. As I've already said to you, you are not in sight of the full facts. That's really all I can say.

 

Whether that is true or not only the originator, and perhaps yourself, can know. However, many other forum members contributed to it, and had their contributions censored, so my comment stands, I'm afraid. If you wanted to suppress discussion on this topic, then censoring that thread was probably a counter-productive action, as the comment has switched to this thread. If this thread is similarly deleted then I strongly suspect someone will start another.

 

I don't think anyone objects to sensible and even-handed moderation after people have been publicly warned that they were over-stepping the mark. On the other hand, it seems that quite a lot of people object rather vociferously when censorship seems to be applied out of the blue, as seems to be the case here to many of us.

 

Some of this comes down to trust and belief. We have your word, and that of Helen J (whoever she is) that your actions are justified. However, as far as the majority of readers of this forum can see, there appears to have been swift and decisive action to remove two long-standing members from this forum for no apparent reason and with no visible form of warning.

 

Is it then surprising that some form the view that the sudden deletion of two long standing members was made for some other reason?

 

Sadly, this action has reflected badly on the ebike company at the centre of this, and has undoubtedly damaged their reputation in the minds of many who read this forum far more than a few comments about exaggerated performance figures.

Well, wissy, while you are enjoying your sit in and boycott (of what ? ) might I suggest that you use your time constructively and start reading through posts starting on here from, ooh, lets say, maybe 17 or so months ago and then maybe you might start to see how "EXTREMELY useful" certain, now banned, people have been on this forum in the past.

 

Thats not to say that they havent been useful, helpful and indeed amusing, at times, but when I said you dont have all the facts, I mean you dont know the history behind all this.

 

Though I still think your time could be used by test riding bikes to find one that suits you......that is, after all, why you joined.

 

Have fun

 

Lynda

 

You may be interested to know that I only joined this forum after reading threads contributed to by eddieo which I found enlightening. One of the first things I did when My moderation queuing ceased to be here after spending several hours on weekend (ok all of my weekend I think sad muppet that I am! ). was to send eddieo a PM asking him for his specific advice.

 

I do find it interesting you are very keen on educating me

 

Ps I am boycotting cricket

Pps I am not really literally having a sit in although I am sitting so please do not worry

Ppps I think it is unrealistic for you to decide what is better use of my time and perhaps discourteous to be honest? Oh and my very first job for three years was time and motion actually

Pppps I have nomintention of test riding a bike .. I did say thatnin my first thad. call me reckless or a mauppet i care not.

Edited January 29, 201313 yr by wissy

I wish I could be upset about Indalo and Eddieo being banned, I really do.

There's a world of difference between disagreeing with the opinion others hold, and refusing to acknowledge that they have a right to express it. I don't agree with all that Eddieo, Indalo, or even Funkylyn or Flecc, write here some times.

 

However, to misquote someone more important than I, I'd defend to the hilt their right to express it.

 

Neither of the two banned individuals has been particularly rude or offensive, and I've been regularly reading this forum for four or five years now. Certainly strong opinions have been expressed from time to time, but then just look at some of the BS spouted by one or two of the vendors on here!

 

My view has always been that discussion forums need a few "strong" characters, to stimulate debate and to prevent discussions becoming thinly-veiled adverts for particular products.

 

Once a forum starts to lose, or throw out, long standing members with valuable, if sometimes controversial, opinions, then its usefulness becomes diluted, and new members seeking advice are less likely to get a balanced view.

Neither of the two banned individuals has been particularly rude or offensive

 

As they aren't here to defend themselves I shall make no other comment than "lol!".

As they aren't here to defend themselves I shall make no other comment than "lol!".

 

I've no doubt some may have been offended, but by offensive I really meant the term as used in a legal sense. For example, referring to someone that you vehemently disagree with as "pondlife" isn't offensive by any reasonable legal definition. It's not particularly complementary, but then vendors who seek to pull the wool of the eyes of potential customers aren't exactly being respectful, either.

 

I've read most of the spats here over the years, but honestly can't see why so much fuss is being made over them. I've heard far worse several times over on pretty much every day that I spent working in the US, for example, and no one there thought it was anything out of the ordinary.

 

I've rather people were honest and forthright when expressing opinions than pretend to believe something different.

One of them has been in far too many rows over the years,although he has been better behaved of late,i have in the past become involved in a difference of opinion,and recieved private messages from him,trying to continue an argument off forum where even more sarcastic inflaming remarks go unnoticed,i hope this time the ban is permanent good riddance,on your bike or off in your camp van,

The morals of this story seem to be

1) if you're a trader be professional and don't bulls**t people because there are plenty on here who know the reality of things

 

2) Dont go hurling insults around at other members, keep your cool

The morals of this story seem to be

1) if you're a trader be professional and don't bulls**t people because there are plenty on here who know the reality of things

 

2) Dont go hurling insults around at other members, keep your cool

 

Well said Oigoi.

For those who may believe in reincarnation, I expect they are already reborn and with us in spirit

 

 

Do you mean that eddieo may have re-joined the forum under a different user name?

 

Well, lets smoke him out:

 

The Tonaro Big Hit is an elegant bike which is blessed with striking good looks. One might say that it is a real head-turner, the sort of bike which you have always long for but didn't realise until that moment when gaze fell upon beautifully formed aluminium.

 

It's manly and erect truck windscreen wiper motor makes a bold and purposeful statement, suggesting that it will take any any other electric bike straight up the saddle bag. The Big-Hit looks poised and rampant, a potent combination.

 

The Tonaro is garnished with some of the finest bicycle components known to mankind. Hence, the quality and longevity of this machine is put beyond question. Famous cyclist Derek Taylor of Stoke on Trent has been so impressed with his Big Hit that he is currently planning to go to Belgium. There is no word yet as to whether his plans include taking the Big Hit with him.

 

Any New Members responding to this with low post counts are likely to be eddieo.

 

ps Who is HelenJ? When did he join the forum?

Edited January 30, 201313 yr by tillson

Do you mean that eddieo may have re-joined the forum under a different user name?

 

Well, lets smoke him out:

 

The Tonaro Big Hit is an elegant bike which is blessed with striking good looks. One might say that it is a real head-turner, the sort of bike which you have always long for but didn't realise until that moment when gaze fell upon beautifully formed aluminium.

 

It's manly and erect truck windscreen wiper motor makes a bold and purposeful statement, suggesting that it will take any any other electric bike straight up the saddle bag. The Big-Hit looks poised and rampant, a potent combination.

 

The Tonaro is garnished with some of the finest bicycle components known to mankind. Hence, the quality and longevity of this machine is put beyond question. Famous cyclist Derek Taylor of Stoke on Trent has been so impressed with his Big Hit that he is currently planning to go to Belgium. There is no word yet as to whether his plans include taking the Big Hit with him.

 

Any New Members responding to this with low post counts are likely to be eddieo.

 

ps Who is HelenJ? When did he join the forum?

 

 

[tongue-in-cheek-mode]

I think that is deeply offensive. No forum member should be allowed to express such an obviously false opinion, especially as it may cause upset with one or two forum sponsors. You should be thrown off the forum immediately for this post.

 

As for the famous D***k T**lor of Stoke, surely he should be consulted before his name is used here, or else this forum runs the risk of doing something illegal (oh, wait a minute, I've just remembered that this forum is entirely focussed on what is, to all intents and purposes, a wholly illegal activity....................................).

[/tongue-in-cheek-mode]

 

 

 

On a more serious note, if the forum owner/admins wish to bias debates and censor/edit posts then that is entirely their prerogative.

 

My only concern is that it should be made very clear to anyone who contributes or reads this forum that they may not be getting a balanced view, and that commercial pressures or the personal views of the censors may be influencing what is allowed to be said and what is not. Nothing wrong with this as long as everyone understands it, it's no different from deliberately buying a right-wing tabloid expecting to read politically biased reporting.

Edited January 30, 201313 yr by Jeremy

Do you mean that eddieo may have re-joined the forum under a different user name?

 

Well, lets smoke him out:

 

The Tonaro Big Hit is an elegant bike which is blessed with striking good looks. One might say that it is a real head-turner, the sort of bike which you have always long for but didn't realise until that moment when gaze fell upon beautifully formed aluminium.

 

It's manly and erect truck windscreen wiper motor makes a bold and purposeful statement, suggesting that it will take any any other electric bike straight up the saddle bag. The Big-Hit looks poised and rampant, a potent combination.

 

The Tonaro is garnished with some of the finest bicycle components known to mankind. Hence, the quality and longevity of this machine is put beyond question. Famous cyclist Derek Taylor of Stoke on Trent has been so impressed with his Big Hit that he is currently planning to go to Belgium. There is no word yet as to whether his plans include taking the Big Hit with him.

 

Any New Members responding to this with low post counts are likely to be eddieo.

 

ps Who is HelenJ? When did he join the forum?

 

I already have couple of new member ID's ready for my self as suggested by Eddie a while back. Pondlife and Mr.Kit..........any other suggestions;)

I already have couple of new member ID's ready for my self as suggested by Eddie a while back. Pondlife and Mr.Kit..........any other suggestions;)

 

WIZZ-PER

 

Just as well stir-up someone else

 

Waldorf & Statler are already reserved......

I already have couple of new member ID's ready for my self as suggested by Eddie a while back. Pondlife and Mr.Kit..........any other suggestions;)

 

How about Mr Squeaky Clean ....

 

Seriously, the thought occurs to me .....can Eddieo still read this forum, but just have to impotently stand by and not be able to respond....... ?

 

If so, we had better go easy on the Tonaro praising, we dont want to be responsible for any spontaneous combustion from that quarter.......I mean, really, it would just be TOO cruel........wouldnt it ??

 

Lynda

Seriously, the thought occurs to me .....can Eddieo still read this forum, but just have to impotently stand by and not be able to respond....... ?

 

 

Although both Eddieo and Indalo have been deleted as members, they can still read this forum, much as I've done over the years, without the need to log on. I've been in touch with Eddieo, and have heard his side, and it does indeed seem as if the "new regime" chose this moment to just get rid of him, not for what was written either privately or publicly over this latest issue (none of which was either offensive or out of order, BTW) but maybe because there seems to be a new agenda here by the management. I strongly suspect that this is business related, and the members here are really just viewed as business assets, to be best used to ensure profitability in these tough times.

 

One of the reasons I chose to stay way from here for a few years (I joined way back in 2007, only a year or so after the venerable flecc) was because of the way things were influenced here. I had thought this forum was relatively free from bias from the admin/moderation team, but it seems that things are changing now.

I've seen a few longstanding members of other forums who got to think their feet were well under the table.

 

Management then issues a reminder about who is boss, which usually amounts to a swift beheading, or in this case, two swift beheadings.

 

I've not been around here long enough to know all the history, but it seems to me Eddie had got a bit too free and easy with the insults.

 

It may be management had their eye on a few of us, and decided action was also needed to discourage the others.

 

On the face of it, Indalo has more cause to complain of harsh treatment.

 

But both may have forgotten another golden rule of forums - you are only as good as your last post.

As noted earlier , where is the Storck advert ? Seems to have slipped off the site .