So the questions.

 

1) Can I still buy an E-bike with a throttle prior to Jan 2016 and still use it legally afterwards?

 

Technically no if it hasn't been type approved, but I don't see this being enforced before January 2016. For example dealers still have existing stocks and they normally have a period of grace to sell with such regulation changes, typically six months

 

2) As a disabled person can I use a throttle on a 250w bike even after that time on a newly bought bike?

 

If the bike has been type approved, yes, it's still an EAPC. Currently only Freego-Wisper have said they will type approve their models, and hopefully they will keep to that and others follow.

 

3) Do these classified bikes up to 1000w need some kind of licence?

 

I'm afraid a driving licence is necessary, new group Q, but I don't know if CBT etc is necessary. It probably is. Car drivers who obtained a full licence before 1st February 2001 are pre-qualified.

 

So long as it's type approved, limited to 15.6 mph assist speed and 1000 watts rating or less, no insurance, registration or number plate is required. It isn't classed as an EAPC though, it doesn't even have to have pedals, it's a Low Powered Moped class AM in law.

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Edited April 12, 201511 yr by flecc

1) Can I still buy an E-bike with a throttle prior to Jan 2016 and still use it legally afterwards?

 

Technically no if it hasn't been type approved, but I don't see this being enforced before January 2016. For example dealers still have existing stocks and they normally have a period of grace to sell with such regulation changes, typically six months

 

2) As a disabled person can I use a throttle on a 250w bike even after that time on a newly bought bike?

 

If the bike has been type approved, yes, it's still an EAPC. Currently only Freego-Wisper have said they will type approve their models, and hopefully they will keep to that and others follow.

 

3) Do these classified bikes up to 1000w need some kind of licence?

 

I'm afraid a driving licence is necessary, new group Q, but I don't know if CBT etc is necessary. It probably is. Car drivers who obtained a full licence before 1st February 2001 are pre-qualified.

 

So long as it's type approved, limited to 15.6 mph assist speed and 1000 watts rating or less, no insurance, registration or number plate is required. It isn't classed as an EAPC though, it doesn't even have to have pedals, it's a Low Powered Moped class AM in law.

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Would be interesting to do a CBT on an ebike! :-) Would I then be able to ride a 125cc Motorbike on that same CBT

Would be interesting to do a CBT on an ebike! Would I then be able to ride a 125cc Motorbike on that same CBT

 

Yes!

 

It's a parallel of the situation back in the 1950s when adding a tiny petrol cyclemotor as little as 25cc to their bicycle meant a full motorcycle licence was needed. Of course those going for the driving test on their assisted bicycle were treated easily, almost nodded through.

 

Trouble was, they could them leap onto a 1000cc Vincent Black Shadow and ride it to 125 mph. There was of course no national speed limit those days, once away from the town 30mph limit any speed was ok.

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Correction 150.313 m.p.h in your underwear!

 

1B/900 was a factory-built racer, but as there was no plan to market such a version as a separate model when it was built, the bike began life as a Black Shadow even though it was later referred to as a Black Lightning by the factory.

Correction 150.313 m.p.h in your underwear!

 

1B/900 was a factory-built racer, but as there was no plan to market such a version as a separate model when it was built, the bike began life as a Black Shadow even though it was later referred to as a Black Lightning by the factory.

 

The road Black Shadow which to my recollection came first had a declared top speed of 125 mph, one of our customers had one. It was an upgrade on the existing 110 mph Rapide. They then made a racing version, at first also still called Black Shadow, but later renamed Black Lightning.

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I’ve not read through all of the 7 pages so apologies if someone else has made this point.

I’m a local Councillor who promotes cycling and is trying to create more cycle paths and shared use paths. I’m also in touch with SUSTRANS who are reviewing the National Cycle Network and looking for funding on the basis of shared paths.

Believe me, cyclists are not universally popular - you probably already know that .........

I honestly believe that the sight of cyclists zooming along without pedalling will lead to a call to ban ebikes from shared use paths and even cycle paths as such.

I think there’s a case for a lightweight electric moped class with a simple registration regime and low cost insurance, but lets not confuse this with ebikes. I think the regulations are pretty good as they are and any beefing up of ebikes will lead to unintended consequences.

From my experience with my ebike I think the regulations are too restrictive on power, 250 watts is not enough in my opinion. It is adequate on a flat road with a slight headwind and a rider of average weight, but when faced with a headwind, a larger than average rider and a long drag up a hill, 250 watts is really struggling. A 1000 watts would be more realistic. The speed can still be restricted, but let's make it 25mph, so that ebikes can keep up with push bikes and also town traffic. My opinion of course, but that's how I feel about the ebike scene at the moment.

From my experience with my ebike I think the regulations are too restrictive on power, 250 watts is not enough in my opinion. It is adequate on a flat road with a slight headwind and a rider of average weight, but when faced with a headwind, a larger than average rider and a long drag up a hill, 250 watts is really struggling. A 1000 watts would be more realistic. The speed can still be restricted, but let's make it 25mph, so that ebikes can keep up with push bikes and also town traffic. My opinion of course, but that's how I feel about the ebike scene at the moment.

 

250w is not the limit. There is no limit on peak assistance. Its 250w nominal, ie essentially average. Which is way more than most normal cyclists. So the power isn't a problem. Unless of course you're using a poorer quality motor. There is certainly no need for 1000w. eBikes are supposed to get someone up to the level of a cyclists... and not to the level of a motorbike.

 

Just some numbers to back up my point.

 

http://www.cyclist.co.uk/news/691/chris-froome-s-numbers-what-do-they-really-mean

 

Froome, FTP - which is essentially the same as the Nominal power limit on eBikes. Froome - 419w.

 

So compare that to an eBike with 250w + rider, you're pretty close to the faster rider on the planet.

 

1000w nominal power limit would give you 2.5x the power the worlds best cyclists.

 

You're never going to win an argument for more power, if you want the bike to be legally classed as a bicycle. There is already a class for your electric vehicle and its a moped class.

About 450 W for an hour for top riders. Just under 200 W for an hour for NASA's "healthy men" - I think I may qualify for that rating at the moment with my recent 32 km/h average speed.

 

All 250 W rated motors will run for an hour at 450 W if you have enough battery on board, the controller might get a little warm but the motor certainly won't from my experience.

I never said 250w was the limit. 1000w would be more realistic and useful in my opinion. However, on the Gov.uk website, it clearly states.

• must have a maximum power output of 250 watts
  

I never said 250w was the limit. 1000w would be more realistic and useful in my opinion. However, on the Gov.uk website, it clearly states.

• must have a maximum power output of 250 watts
  

 

That is a mistake we have already discussed here on the forum a couple of years back - it should read "nominative maximum power output of 250 W" as does EN 15194.

I never said 250w was the limit. 1000w would be more realistic and useful in my opinion. However, on the Gov.uk website, it clearly states.

• must have a maximum power output of 250 watts
  

 

You've said 250w is not enough... we're trying to show you that you aren't limited to 250w... there is no peak power limit.

 

Of course you want more power, and if you do, you are able to get more power and speed. You just need a license and pay a bit of tax to use it, plus it counts as a motorbike so you can't use it where bicycles go.

 

1000w is way more than a normal cyclist can put out for more than a few seconds, so expecting it to be legally classed as a bicycle is wrong and pushing for it could jeapordise the great situation we're currently in.

You've said 250w is not enough... we're trying to show you that you aren't limited to 250w... there is no peak power limit.

 

Of course you want more power, and if you do, you are able to get more power and speed. You just need a license and pay a bit of tax to use it, plus it counts as a motorbike so you can't use it where bicycles go.

 

1000w is way more than a normal cyclist can put out for more than a few seconds, so expecting it to be legally classed as a bicycle is wrong and pushing for it could jeapordise the great situation we're currently in.

And I still say 250w which is the maximum continuous rated power is not enough. an ebike is a lot heavier than a world champions racing cycle, I find it ridiculous to compare the two situations

If you look at the graph above 1000 W is a super athlete pedaling like a mad man for 3 seconds on an ergo-meter. Any 350-500 W geared hub motor with a 25 Amp controller and a 48v battery will give you 1000 W at the wheel, it won't be road legal though. My GSM with a 20 Amp controller and a fully charged 48v battery will give the same but as Woosh says it won't last very long if you do that every day.

 

In the end you will find that a 250 W nominative motor with 48v battery is plenty enough power for day to day use with a 15 Amp or a 17 Amp controller.

And I still say 250w which is the maximum continuous rated power is not enough. an ebike is a lot heavier than a world champions racing cycle is, I find it rediculous to to compare the two situations

 

Yes, and I'm afraid you're simply wrong.

 

I know this, because we run race teams and sponsor some of the faster cyclists in the country.

 

On a totally road legal 250w eBike... my wife can beat them.

I never said 250w was the limit. 1000w would be more realistic and useful in my opinion. However, on the Gov.uk website, it clearly states.

• must have a maximum power output of 250 watts
  

 

Currently the European Commission are proposing that pedelecs should have compulsory insurance, something that we are all fighting against naturally, since that is likely to bring registration and number plates. Obviously insurance compliance couldn't be policed without number plates and user registration.

 

Your proposal would certainly justify that happening, the last thing any of us want.

 

Information Link

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And I still say 250w which is the maximum continuous rated power is not enough.

 

You keep repeating this but it's not true, you are quoting poorly worded type approval exemption law, contradicted by the technical regulations.

 

Run of the mill pedelecs deliver between 400 and 500 watts of usable power, some much more. I and others in this forum have owned a legal pedelec which two of us have measured at just over 1000 watts gross, meaning around 700 watts at the wheel. Add a rider's 200 watts or so and it's a continuous power that a top racing cyclist can only deliver for seconds.

 

You state that comparison is ridiculous due to the pedelec's weight, but you are obviously not thinking this through. Take a typical 75 kilo rider, then add first an 8 kilo race bike, then a 24 kilo pedelec.

 

The first case is 83 kilos, the second 99 kilos, under 20% heavier so not the big deal the bike weight differences make it seem. The pedelec's added 400/500 watts power easily deals with that extra 16 kilos weight with loads of power to spare.

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