yikes, if the Donald has become the authority on which we base what to do next we are in much deeper doggy do than I imagined. to be fair the principle behind brexit (self determination) must mean the union must dissolve. I mean, I don't hear the word Oxfordshire at all enough anymore. it must be high time for an Oxfordshire renewal ;>)

I'm all for restoring the Saxon Kingdoms if this logic prevails, or perhaps ask for the Romans to come back?

Their roads suffered less from Potholes than we seem to be able to manage!

Renewal? what are you going on about?

You should look at why JC sits on the fence.

Brexit creates new opportunities, for good and bad, but opportunities is the word.

You should look at why JC sits on the fence.

Brexit creates new opportunities, for good and bad, but opportunities is the key.

JC is a short sighted imitation of a Socialist that sees no further than the high water mark.

Another Citizen Smith Wannabee, not a true Socialist.

These Islands we occupy are nothing more than a part of Europe cut off by Geological accident.

 

Nye Bevan made a famous remark about that sort of Politician

 

"We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run down."

"We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run down."

 

that's sadly is the reason why we lurch from one incompetent government to another.

I quoted the source simply because it caught my eye this morning, not intended to promote Mr Trump in any shape of form.

as much as I am not a fan of Trump, the attraction for renewal is a factor for brexiters, there is some truth in what he was saying. I would substitute the word Britain with 'UK'.

The importance of the UK has continually diminished for a long time.

i appreciate that you don't intend to promote the Donald - but its no coincidence that he backs brexit - it is a "renewal" in the same mould as his election - a triumph of populist manure (spun by the rich, like him, to create new business opportunities) over actual institutional democracy.

it gives to this country a chance for renewal.

 

Not for the first time, I don't understand the point you make. Renewal of what?

 

The best future option for the UK, an acronym that Trump doesn't understand as he seems to confuse it frequently with the expression 'Great Britain', is to continue our membership of the EU which has more to offer the British people than any other airy-fairy trade deals mooted so far by the incompetent clowns supposedly negotiating our exit from the EU.

 

It strikes me from your repeated promotion of selected sets of economic figures and other indicators that you really have no concept of what the European Union is all about. Perhaps that is because you buy and sell and have particular vested interests in some kind of future arrangement not governed or controlled by EU rules and regulations; I don't know?

 

What I do know is that for hundreds of millions of people across Europe, the EU is hugely important for their future survival and prosperity. Not only has it been the saviour of several little countries whose economic future was decidedly uncertain, it has also proved immensely valuable to the UK when this country was going down the pan following the short-lived, post-WW2 economic boom which brought about the birth of the NHS and nationalisation of the major industries and utilities.

 

By the early seventies, the UK was desperate to join the common market although those countries which formed the initial group were not very keen at all to admit us. As those countries knew, British arrogance meant that the UK was unlikely to demonstrate any desire to be a team player and so it was proved much later when we objected to the cost of membership, with which we had happily agreed at the outset.

 

Eventually, we bullied our way into securing a rebate but that was never enough for the British elite which has always disliked the fact that we are not in charge, as if the common market/EEC/EU had become the new British empire. After all, did we not come to the rescue and not for the first time, of all those foreign Johnnies who seem incapable of living in harmony like the English, Welsh and Scots?!

 

To arrogantly determine that we are walking away from the EU, while begging for a deal which amounts to pretty well all the benefits we currently enjoy, but for free, is frankly ridiculous. There is so much more to the EU than plain figures on a balance sheet and many member states realise that. If one looks, for example, at Poland, it is a very industrious nation although suppressed behind the iron curtain for many years. The UK was very glad of their airmen and those from Canada, the USA and various other countries in WW2, as our RAF was struggling to contain the threat from the Luftwaffe and we were losing both aircraft and pilots at an alarming rate.

 

Today, Poland is becoming a thriving country within the EU and many Poles who came to the UK under freedom of movement, have since returned now that employment prospects in their own country have improved considerably.

 

Sadly, Poles, like so many other economic migrants from other EU countries who have made their home in the relatively affluent, northern European countries, have been viciously attacked by the right-wing extremists, no less in the UK than in France and Germany for example. Those immigrants have paid their way in the UK and haven't simply been a burden on the state or the NHS as Farage and his ilk have portrayed them.

 

Now, we read stories of huge numbers of migrants leaving the UK in pursuit of safer, assured domiciles in other EU states. That places the NHS in a similar situation to that of the RAF in 1939-40, pre- Battle of Britain. The difference this time is that there is no-one coming to the aid of the NHS!

 

I'm afraid, 'Woosh', almost all your posts have centred upon economic factors as you see them, with scant regard for the human and humanitarian elements of EU membership. That, of course, is typical of the British elite, the tory party and their fascist supporters and of course the billionaire-owned major media churning out the propaganda message. Time and again this particular tory administration has demonstrated its disregard for the ordinary people both in this country and from other countries, as their attitude to refugees from war zones has made perfectly clear.

 

This little film clip demonstrates how a proud people can happily exist as a sovereign EU state with a proud history, never losing sight of the struggles it had to overcome along the way:

 

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1570571496346543

 

Tom

JC is a short sighted imitation of a Socialist that sees no further than the high water mark.

Another Citizen Smith Wannabee, not a true Socialist.

These Islands we occupy are nothing more than a part of Europe cut off by Geological accident.

 

Nye Bevan made a famous remark about that sort of Politician

 

"We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run down."

But to a point the "company is getting the management it deserves" (and brexiters really deserve Boris, may et Al) My hunch is Corbyn would do much more if he wasn't as acutely aware as the rest of us of the large uninformed racist part of the electorate that has reared its ugly head and is evidently incapable of reason

Now, let's see.....Trump is one of these faces. I wonder which one!

 

 

Tom

This is why we are leaving, the older generation was lied to by the Conservatives and the Labour politicians of the past and never given to opportunity to air their views with each change of the Treaties - when asked to review the situation some 40 odd years later many remembered the promises of the past and duly voted to leave.

 

#43

This is why we are leaving, the older generation was lied to by the Conservatives and the Labour politicians of the past and never given to opportunity to air their views with each change of the Treaties - when asked to review the situation some 40 odd years later many remembered the promises of the past and duly voted to leave.

 

#43

Come off it, no one cared about the changes at the time, they have been encouraged to do so by propaganda since, but it simply wasn't true.

No protests took place and on each instance the government minimised the effects even negotiating a no further integration agreement.

This is a case of making up a non existent past resentment to suit a current situation.

It's simply nonsense

 

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

"It's simply nonsense"

 

I think the current state of play proves otherwise

This is why we are leaving, the older generation was lied to by the Conservatives and the Labour politicians of the past and never given to opportunity to air their views with each change of the Treaties - when asked to review the situation some 40 odd years later many remembered the promises of the past and duly voted to leave.

 

But in my experience the older generation aren't the ones who voted to leave, just like so much of us oldies in this forum we voted to stay.

 

I think the media are doing too much assuming. It seems to be largely the middle years from 30 to 60 who are celebrating Brexit, and these days none of those are considered old.

 

It's those of us old enough to remember the post WW2 three decades who know how bad that could be and therefore want to stay in the EU.

.

This is why we are leaving, the older generation was lied to by the Conservatives and the Labour politicians of the past and never given to opportunity to air their views with each change of the Treaties - when asked to review the situation some 40 odd years later many remembered the promises of the past and duly voted to leave.

 

#43

funny you should say that. brexit is one of the biggest lies yet. I've a more jaundiced view of the electorate. not so much sweet, innocent souls being lied to. much more often willing collaborators. as with brexit, they know it is lies, but it sits comfortably with their self serving and xenophobic interests so they are happy to go along with the lies. that's when they're not too lazy to do due diligence (and research facts), or vote or resist.

as far as process goes the decision to brexit is no different from the lies of the past.

I thought it was time to read the Leavers point of view so I Googled 'Brexit advantages',expecting to get the media spin of trading with the world etc,what comes up 'BREXIT,40000 city jobs to go from London,Dublin seen to have many ADVANTAGES'....perhaps a Brexiter can tell me the advantages,at this moment I cannot see any?????

To arrogantly determine that we are walking away from the EU, while begging for a deal which amounts to pretty well all the benefits we currently enjoy, but for free, is frankly ridiculous.

that is one point among many that I don't agree with you.

All countries need to trade with one another. Sure, some can throw their weight about and do, but when you look at WTO, you need to see that it is an EU at a world scale. It is less ambitious, but still ambitious, it establishes a less fair level paying field for its members compared to the SM but it is also zillion times more flexible.

The duty is collected by governments and is useful - there is no reason to assume that WTO is the death of British industries.

This is why we are leaving, the older generation was lied to by the Conservatives and the Labour politicians of the past and never given to opportunity to air their views with each change of the Treaties - when asked to review the situation some 40 odd years later many remembered the promises of the past and duly voted to leave.

 

#43

And IDS,Rees-Mug,Bone and Redwood are intending to give the electorate a chance to air there views??? From where I sit they and puppet May are doing their best to keep the electorate away from airing our views.

These fascists are steering the UK to a xenophobic state so that they can retreat to their country piles knowing that they wield the power and run the UK just like the 1930's.....but they wont win, Brexit will fall apart,lets hope it happens before they cause irreparable damage to our country.

We are only weak in the EU because our politicians dont have the balls to argue and maintain our position,if Cameron wasnt so wet we would not be in this position,shame we cant bring back Maggie.

KudosDave

Edited August 2, 20178 yr by Kudoscycles

"It's simply nonsense"

 

I think the current state of play proves otherwise

No it doesn't, what it does prove is that if you state "This was done without your consent, you must have been enraged at the time!"

Rather than admit they didn't actually either notice it happened, or care anyway, and therefore look a fool, the reaction is "We were up in arms and no one listened"

And now of course most of the ones rooting for Brexit haven't the slightest understanding of what they are doing or even why, but are incensed because they think they won something and are about to be robbed again.

that is one point among many that I don't agree with you.

All countries need to trade with one another. Sure, some can throw their weight about and do, but when you look at WTO, you need to see that it is an EU at a world scale. It is less ambitious, but still ambitious, it establishes a less fair level paying field for its members compared to the SM but it is also zillion times more flexible.

The duty is collected by governments and is useful - there is no reason to assume that WTO is the death of British industries.

The WTO cannot be compared with the EU as by comparison it has no Social Dimension and no unifying influence either, it is simply not in the same league in terms of value to the Future of the Nation, we may as well go to foreign Markets on Bicycles with strings of onions hanging down each side as the legendary French onion sellers reputedly did here in the past

 

Brexit: a Vision of the Future

Shame we cant bring back Maggie.

KudosDave

And give Blair some company in the Dock? great idea, recommended

And IDS,Rees-Mug,Bone and Redwood are intending to give the electorate a chance to air there views??? From where I sit they and puppet May are doing their best to keep the electorate away from airing our views.

These fascists are steering the UK to a xenophobic state so that they can retreat to their country piles knowing that they wield the power and run the UK just like the 1930's.....but they wont win, Brexit will fall apart,lets hope it happens before they cause irreparable to our country.

We are only weak in the EU because our politicians dont have the balls to argue and maintain our position,if Cameron wasnt so wet we would not be in this position,shame we cant bring back Maggie.

KudosDave

 

I do too

 

Thatcher roasting for Major on Maastricht: Prime Minister 'put his head in the fire' by signing treaty. BARONESS Thatcher yesterday accused John Major of 'putting his head in the fire' by signing the Maastricht treaty.6 May 1993

we may as well go to foreign Markets on Bicycles with strings of onions hanging down each side as the legendary French onion sellers reputedly did here in the past

 

Not just reputed, I remember them well, but they were more abundant in the southern counties and especially in south coast towns.

 

One marked difference from today is that most of them spoke little English, and with their housewife customers generally knowing no French, everything was done by sign language or shouting louder until understanding was reached!

.

Keir Starmer,Labour's Brexit shadow secretary has just announced in the Telegraph that it is Labour policy to keep the UK in the single market and the customs union....I thought Corbyn has said it is Labour policy to leave both?

Looks like Labour are no more agreed on Brexit than the Tories?

Perhaps we should ask the EU what is the UK's exit policy,they probably know more than our government.

KudosDave

I do too

 

Thatcher roasting for Major on Maastricht: Prime Minister 'put his head in the fire' by signing treaty. BARONESS Thatcher yesterday accused John Major of 'putting his head in the fire' by signing the Maastricht treaty.6 May 1993

Is that some sort of plaudit for that vile woman? are we supposed to be impressed by this woman, who's most memorable Faux pas was over the Falklands? who virtually invited the Argentinians to invade the Falklands by withdrawing the Naval Presence leaving it defenceless in the hope of getting rid of an "Expensive Nuisance"?

And it would have worked too, but for The Marines at Government House, Rex Hunt and the Radio Playing "Land of Hope and Glory" till they were shut down?

Followed a little later by announcing the Para's had taken a certain hill that they didn't attack till the next day?

And I wont bother to expand on the other utterly idiotic things this woman was responsible for regarding her damage to industry, and the Industrial North.

Kindly desist from using her as an example of anything other than crass stupidity.

Keir Starmer,Labour's Brexit shadow secretary has just announced in the Telegraph that it is Labour policy to keep the UK in the single market and the customs union....I thought Corbyn has said it is Labour policy to leave both?

Looks like Labour are no more agreed on Brexit than the Tories?

Perhaps we should ask the EU what is the UK's exit policy,they probably know more than our government.

KudosDave

Don't worry I'm sure they have told us already and are enjoying the pantomime as the Westminster Flying Circus try to sell it to the punters as a Victory for "US"

Is that some sort of plaudit for that vile woman? are we supposed to be impressed by this woman, who's most memorable Faux pas was over the Falklands? who virtually invited the Argentinians to invade the Falklands by withdrawing the Naval Presence leaving it defenceless in the hope of getting rid of an "Expensive Nuisance"?

And it would have worked too, but for The Marines at Government House, Rex Hunt and the Radio Playing "Land of Hope and Glory" till they were shut down?

Followed a little later by announcing the Para's had taken a certain hill that they didn't attack till the next day?

And I wont bother to expand on the other utterly idiotic things this woman was responsible for regarding her damage to industry, and the Industrial North.

Kindly desist from using her as an example of anything other than crass stupidity.

 

No thank you