So, it seems that laws and punishments are only for the poor, foreigners, socialists and anyone considered a political dissident but never for the elite of British or American society.

 

Of course, for two reasons. Firstly, those who make laws make them against the things they don't intend to do. Secondly, as the law makers they ensure they have control over their application.

.

There is, we are going to dig it up from the Brussels courtyard and plant it back in the UK.

no offence, but this kind of zealous denial is quite distressing. it leaves me feeling uk will need more pain than say japan needed at the end of ww2 to give up its delusions of grandeur. and I don't fancy metaphorically the financial and social equivalent of two nuclear bombs.

no offence, but this kind of zealous denial is quite distressing. it leaves me feeling uk will need more pain than say japan needed at the end of ww2 to give up its delusions of grandeur. and I don't fancy metaphorically the financial and social equivalent of two nuclear bombs.

The appalling fact of the matter is that we who voted for remain are simply collateral damage in this outbreak of mass delusion which has taken on pandemic proportions among the less sceptical members of the Adult population.

That is bad enough, but it will end up in anger rather than tears at the end of the day., and no one wants that.

The appalling fact of the matter is that we who voted for remain are simply collateral damage in this outbreak of mass delusion which has taken on pandemic proportions among the less sceptical members of the Adult population.

That is bad enough, but it will end up in anger rather than tears at the end of the day., and no one wants that.

.. what is even more appalling is that even at this late stage it is potentially redeemable, but no one wants to take a lead. Any public discourse assumes it must happen. It is now akin to painting the stable doors, in nice shades of blue ,red and white stripes, while ignoring the horses who are now galloping away.

There is only one democratic way to solve the Brexit dilemma. and it's very simple really

 

Spin a coin to see which side starts the cycle of one Day we are independent, the second day part of the EU,or vice versa, (with a 4% extra time allowance to favour the leave vote)

logically that would mean you only have to work one day out of two.

End of reasons to complain at one swell foop.

Simples!

And everyone will be happy!

 

That wasn't hard, just needed to think out of the box....

With a bit of good old British compromise anything is possible.

We just need two sets of Flags for the appropriate days.

Edited August 1, 20178 yr by oldgroaner

Latest YouGov poll:

Is 'significant damage to the UK economy' a price worth paying to get your way on Brexit?

 

Leave voters: 61 per cent believe it is worth it.

 

Remain voters: 34 per cent believe it is worth it.

 

Is the loss of your job or a family member's job a price worth paying to get your way on Brexit?

 

Leave voters: 39 per cent would sacrifice their job or a family member’s job for Brexit.

 

Remain Voters: 18 per cent would lose their job or a family’s job if it meant staying in the EU.

Latest YouGov poll:

 

Is 'significant damage to the UK economy' a price worth paying to get your way on Brexit?

 

Leave voters: 61 per cent believe it is worth it.

 

Remain voters: 34 per cent believe it is worth it.

 

Is the loss of your job or a family member's job a price worth paying to get your way on Brexit?

 

Leave voters: 39 per cent would sacrifice their job or a family member’s job for Brexit.

 

Voters: 18 per cent would lose their job or a family’s job if it meant staying in the EU.

I must be losing the plot, how is there a a risk of significant damage to the economy or losing your job by STAYING in the EU?

 

And what kind of idiot is willing to lose their job for either reason?

 

Truly the electorate has been bitten by the Stupid Bug

 

We as a nation are sailing at flank speed past the point of insanity heading for the rocks on point Bizarre.

Madness has now become the norm.

the question is hypothetical of course, to gauge the emotional factor.

Even on WTO terms, the effect is around -3% on GDP, much less than that in job losses.

Latest YouGov poll:

Is 'significant damage to the UK economy' a price worth paying to get your way on Brexit?

 

Leave voters: 61 per cent believe it is worth it.

 

Remain voters: 34 per cent believe it is worth it.

 

Is the loss of your job or a family member's job a price worth paying to get your way on Brexit?

 

Leave voters: 39 per cent would sacrifice their job or a family member’s job for Brexit.

 

Remain Voters: 18 per cent would lose their job or a family’s job if it meant staying in the EU.

this brings to mind Orwell's "new speak" of "oceania" as language becomes a tool to normalise the bizarre ideological requirements of a group of fascists

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak

we do not need to leave the eu (it's like having a poll on whether its worth paying the price of shooting of your right foot to be one footed).

this brings to mind Orwell's "new speak" of "oceania" as language becomes a tool to normalise the bizarre ideological requirements of a group of fascists

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak

we do not need to leave the eu (it's like having a poll on whether its worth paying the price of shooting of your right foot to be one footed).

.. short term pain for long term gain.... Think of the savings in socks and shoes .. you must start thinking of the upside

we may not brexit right in the next 2-5 years but long term prospect for brexit is most likely better for the majority.

we may not brexit right in the next 2-5 years but long term prospect for brexit is most likely better for the majority.

The only majority it will be better for are the other members of the EU

 

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

we may not brexit right in the next 2-5 years but long term prospect for brexit is most likely better for the majority.

yes lets gamble the nation (and next few generations)'s future on an unqualified un-researched xenophobic hunch. what could go wrong. why not go further. our long term prospects is most likely better if we launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike against America. we should do it. they'd never see it coming. we could recolonize the states.

The only majority it will be better for are the other members of the EU

 

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

brexit is a lose-lose in the short term.

On the long term, if we remain in the customs union or SM, we'll get extra flexibility compared to membership of the EU, so we should do a bit better.

The EU won't win anything.

For the moment it doesn't have to win anything. You do realise that the EU can modify its China anti-dumping tarifs at any time and import stuff direct from China without going through the UK?

brexit is a lose-lose in the short term.

On the long term, if we remain in the customs union or SM, we'll get extra flexibility compared to membership of the EU, so we should do a bit better.

The EU won't win anything.

wishful thinking again the EU will morph into a united states and is into a hanger on feeding on its scraps

 

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

yes lets gamble the nation (and next few generations)'s future on an unqualified un-researched xenophobic hunch. what could go wrong. why not go further. our long term prospects is most likely better if we launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike against America. we should do it. they'd never see it coming. we could recolonize the states.

 

I agree, assuming if you mean the future development path of the EU.

For the moment it doesn't have to win anything. You do realise that the EU can modify its China anti-dumping tarifs at any time and import stuff direct from China without going through the UK?

 

The EU is not going to ditch its anti-dumping duties,they have managed by devious means of keeping extending the date when anti-dumping was going to be removed....this is particularly the case with bicycles,the duty being kept and in fact extended to other Asian countries,mostly by pressure from the Germans.

These duties are rarely an anti dumping mechanism they are really protectionism under a different label.

If we achieve a free trade deal with the EU then they will insist that we retain the duties on imports from China,rules of origin should apply.....but my guess is the EU will take the simple route and put those anti-dumping tariffs onto the UK,irrespective of the country of origin....that will be awful for small companies like Pashley or Brompton,who could have a double hit.....if goods come in from China tariff free,then the Chinese will swamp the UK with cheap goods,companies like Dahon will hurt the likes of Brompton.....when Brompton try to sell their bikes into the EU they will be hit by 50% plus tariffs.

Goods come from China to both the UK and the EU,I compete with companies in Germany and Poland ,the current strength of the Euro against the £ ,helping. But you are right that if we make it difficult to trade with the EU ,EU countries will be tempted to ship directly from China.

The EU is currently fining our HMRC over 2 billion Euros,because HMRC are very bad at collecting correct duty on goods,especially on jeans and clothes,HMRC are considered the weakest border in the EU,so I think EU customs will be pleased to see the back of us. Brexit may give HMRC a kick up the proverbial because if they fail to collect the correct duty at our border for sure the French will collect the correct duty at Calais,the losses to our customs could be enormous!!!!

KudosDave

I agree, assuming if you mean the future development path of the EU.

The EU is following the same path that turned the 300 small small Germanic states into Germany and the separate colonies into the USA.

Which rather blows your notion that the process is unlikely to succeed out of the water, doesn't it?

The formation of a United States of Europe is both desirable and inevitable, even if the people who would have us revert to the Saxon Kingdoms think otherwise.

History proves your notion of small nation states, which is all that England is, a nonsense, as you can't assume ownership of the other nations comprising the UK without compromising the principle driving Brexit of no free movement and all that goes with it can you?

In the end we will have no choice but to grovel to join, just as we did with the Common Market.

Here is a classic example of how to apply Spin to make a loss seem like a gain

"

BRUSSELS IN CHAOS

Hundreds of EU scientists want to STAY in Britain after Brexit as European countries fall out over who will host key agencies

 

 

75 per cent of the European Medicines Agency's staff want to stay in London after the agency moves

That means nearly 700 skilled scientists will be looking for a new job – providing a boost to Britain’s medical research industry.

 

We will also need workers to staff a new agency which will replace the EU body overseeing the safety of drugs and medical devices.

 

So they do, all they need now is jobs, and the agencies have disappeared haven't they?

Since when were 700 Unemployed headline Good News?

 

Great news Folks! this is pretty much the Dunkirk Spirit, turning an evacuation into a Victory.

Here is a classic example of how to apply Spin to make a loss seem like a gain

"

BRUSSELS IN CHAOS

Hundreds of EU scientists want to STAY in Britain after Brexit as European countries fall out over who will host key agencies

 

 

75 per cent of the European Medicines Agency's staff want to stay in London after the agency moves

That means nearly 700 skilled scientists will be looking for a new job – providing a boost to Britain’s medical research industry.

 

We will also need workers to staff a new agency which will replace the EU body overseeing the safety of drugs and medical devices.

 

So they do, all they need now is jobs, and the agencies have disappeared haven't they?

Since when were 700 Unemployed headline Good News?

 

Great news Folks! this is pretty much the Dunkirk Spirit, turning an evacuation into a Victory.

.. ah sure they can move over to Dublin and take the cheap Ryanair flights at the weekend for the fleshpots of London. .. Ryanair oh!, Well maybe not.

From Donald Trump:

 

“You don’t hear the word Britain any more.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/01/donald-trump-wall-street-journal-full-interview-transcript

 

Is that a good enough justification for brexit?

 

it gives to this country a chance for renewal.

From Donald Trump:

 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/01/donald-trump-wall-street-journal-full-interview-transcript

 

Is that a good enough justification for brexit?

 

it gives to this country a chance for renewal.

yikes, if the Donald has become the authority on which we base what to do next we are in much deeper doggy do than I imagined. to be fair the principle behind brexit (self determination) must mean the union must dissolve. I mean, I don't hear the word Oxfordshire at all enough anymore. it must be high time for an Oxfordshire renewal ;>)

yikes, if the Donald has become the authority on which we base what to do next we are in much deeper doggy do than I imagined.

I quoted the source simply because it caught my eye this morning, not intended to promote Mr Trump in any shape of form.

as much as I am not a fan of Trump, the attraction for renewal is a factor for brexiters, there is some truth in what he was saying. I would substitute the word Britain with 'UK'.

The importance of the UK has continually diminished for a long time.

I quoted the source simply because it caught my eye this morning, not intended to promote Mr Trump in any shape of form.

as much as I am not a fan of Trump, the attraction for renewal is a factor for brexiters, there is some truth in what he was saying. I would substitute the word Britain with 'UK'.

The importance of the UK has continually diminished for a long time.

Renewal? what are you going on about? Renewal of what exactly? come on lets have some specifics, not this random nonsense of wishful dreams and vague hopes.

Exactly and precisely what is to be Renewed, and where are the itemised and costed plans to do so?

If you don't like the UK diminishing in importance, what gargantuan leap of faith bordering on insanity can make Brexit seem like a good way to reverse that process?

I shall give you a very good reason that Brexit will be a disaster... no make that five

The House of Commons

The House of Lords

The UK Elite

The Murdoch Press

The Tory Voters

It hasn't a Snowflake in Hell's Chance of being a Renewal, more in the nature of a Wake

Edited August 2, 20178 yr by oldgroaner