Funny though, our poor bastard child cousin (New Zealand), does have Yamaha ebike motors/batteries. And they won't send from NZ to Aust

That will teach you for being so rude about them, revenge is sweet:p

There are some differences.

For one, the original battery causes the charger to terminate charge completely and the green LED on the charger will go out when its finished (on a 4A charger anyway). I really didn't like the fact that it didn't do this on the third party one hence I tested it. The last thing I wanted was to say leave it plugged in overnight and it keep pumping 4 amps into the battery!

As it turns out, I don't think it does this, so all is good, however whatever the mechanism is to switch off the charger, that doesn't work properly.

I use this to monitor the charge:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brennenstuhl-Eco-Line-Extension-Energy-Saving-White/dp/B01GLHLOG4/ref=sr_1_5?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1525798187&sr=1-5&keywords=Brennenstuhl+Eco-Line+Extension+Lead+Cable+Energy

Handy as I need an extension lead most of the time anyway

 

Also, I have a feeling the 3rd party battery charges ever so slightly higher voltage wise, than the stock Yamaha one (or perhaps its a case of Yamaha slightly under volt their cells to give longer life). because the bike will register 100% for quite some time before it starts to drop under this figure when in use. So maybe the true 'full' figure is perhaps 105-110% compared to the normal battery. If yours is showing 90 something after coming off charge, id be thinking that it may very well NOT be fully charged.

 

Yes you are right about the charger switching off with the original battery. I never leave the aftermarket one on over night either as I don't entirely trust it (in case it catches fire or something). That said, it could be that the aftermarket one has a more basic charge control system that just doesn't have the ability to feed back to the charger that it's full.

 

wrt over charging I have never noticed it staying on 100% for longer than normal, it always drops at the expected rate. Also, when its supposedly fully charged but starts with less than 100 it also drops at the expected rate. I would agree that there is perhaps a subtle difference in the voltage between the 2 batteries as it feels to me as if the aftermarket one has a tiny bit more oomph than the standard one. The aftermarket one also drains more consistently across the range of the battery. The original battery seems to drain more quickly once it goes below 50%, and especially when it goes below 20%. The aftermarket one has never behaved like this.

.. it could be that the aftermarket one has a more basic charge control system that just doesn't have the ability to feed back to the charger that it's full.

 

Yes, could be. Either that or the charger is looking for the current taken to drop below a certain level, and the aftermarket one never quite gets there.

 

 

wrt over charging I have never noticed it staying on 100% for longer than normal, it always drops at the expected rate. Also, when its supposedly fully charged but starts with less than 100 it also drops at the expected rate. I would agree that there is perhaps a subtle difference in the voltage between the 2 batteries as it feels to me as if the aftermarket one has a tiny bit more oomph than the standard one. The aftermarket one also drains more consistently across the range of the battery. The original battery seems to drain more quickly once it goes below 50%, and especially when it goes below 20%. The aftermarket one has never behaved like this.

 

Interesting. This isn't on my own bike so I can't be certain on it, but my perception is that its the opposite! in that the original Yamaha one is more linear, but the aftermarket one seems to drop faster when it gets low!

Update: The replacement battery has failed. I was riding home from work yesterday and it literally just died on me, as if I switched the bike off. The battery was running at about 25% at the time and after that the bike would not power up again. I fully charged it later and put it on the bike and the same issue. If I put the original battery on the bike starts up no problem so it looks like the unit has failed in some way. I will be in touch with the supplier today to see what they say [They are collecting it Monday and will be testing it to see what the fault is].

 

The back rack I bought to carry the spare battery and charger is going back today as well. It is literally falling apart (the blurry bracket in the middle broke completely a few weeks back, which I knew about, the one in the foreground is also on the way as is the middle one on the other side...both of which I didnt know about until I took it off yesterday)

Edited May 18, 20187 yr by doomo

Sorry to hear that doomo, I was hoping this battery would be a viable option when my original Yamaha one finally gives up the ghost.

 

The good news for me on my 10 to no more then 18 mile commute, 28 maximum round trip with the chance to recharge at work is that the battery is now in its fourth year with over 9000 miles on it and working almost as well as it did when new.

 

I am hoping it can last quite a lot longer. I do look after it.

Sorry to hear that doomo, I was hoping this battery would be a viable option when my original Yamaha one finally gives up the ghost.

 

The good news for me on my 10 to no more then 18 mile commute, 28 maximum round trip with the chance to recharge at work is that the battery is now in its fourth year with over 9000 miles on it and working almost as well as it did when new.

 

I am hoping it can last quite a lot longer. I do look after it.

https://www.bga-reworking.co.uk/

 

they can recell the pack to your spec

Re celling these packs should pose no issue even with the original bms, the new pack simply needs connecting up in parallel with equal voltages so that bms power isn't interrupted then the old pack disconnected.

Re celling these packs should pose no issue even with the original bms, the new pack simply needs connecting up in parallel with equal voltages so that bms power isn't interrupted then the old pack disconnected.

 

I've read that needs to be done with the current Bosch packs, but is this also known for certain to be the case with the Yamaha ones?

I've read that needs to be done with the current Bosch packs, but is this also known for certain to be the case with the Yamaha ones?

 

It will depend on how smart the bms system is.

It will depend on how smart the bms system is.

 

You made a definitive statement - "the new pack simply needs connecting up in parallel with equal voltages so that bms power isn't interrupted". I'm trying to find out if that statement is based on fact, or have you instead falsely presented a supposition as a fact ?

https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php?threads/erfahrungen-mit-akkus-f%C3%BCr-yamaha-von-drittherstellern.46096/

shame I never found that 612w battery before buying the 468 w one otherwise I would have snapped that up. Gutted!

 

Interesting that the findings in that thread link above are different to my own personal experience of the 468w battery (which are: a noticeably better range and linear loss of capacity, the opposite of what they said). 20 down to 10 on the original battery seems to disappear in so little time, and interestingly I've noticed that the original battery doesnt seem to charge in a linear fashion either, i.e. the last 25% takes much longer than the other 25% blocks. I wonder if its duff, and I think I will take it into the shop to get it tested.

 

Anyway, still no update on results of testing the battery I returned. I have requested that they keep me in the loop regarding what the failure was too, in case I have to try to fix it myself when it fails again (which will probably happen when it's just out of warranty).

https://www.bga-reworking.co.uk/

 

they can recell the pack to your spec

 

That service is not advertised on their site from what I can see. Do you know how much they charge and what they can do wrt spc (max capacity).

its not advertised but they can do it price will depend on what cells you want to use how many that will fit in the case and whats used to link the cells together. nickle copper or silver is a option.

 

best just to email jimmy and ask for a price

https://ebikebatteries.co.uk/recelling/

Ah. I contacted them a while ago (Insat International) and I think Jimmy wasnt very well and had more or less stopped doing it.

hope not as he is the only person that can do bosch batts and my 400w will need doing soon

In that case it might be a good idea to contact them because if he has indeed stopped (as they implied) it gives you some time to find an alternative solution.

he is the only person in the uk that can do them, a company in Germany does it but not a option because of the postage rules on batts.

Don't quote me, but I think GLS are a company that will courier batteries within the EU.

Update from allBatteries:

 

"It appears the customer has blown the internal 20 A fuse, either the customer has short circuited the terminals of the battery or the motor on the bicycle has drawn excessive current, this may mean a potential fault with the motor.

 

We can replace the fuse and return to the customer as a good will gesture, but the failure is due to customer error."

 

I have asked them for details on how to replace this fuse in future if it blows again

Hi doomo,

 

I find their response a little disingenuous, you might want to point out that you only bought their battery to have an increased range and are still using the original battery that continues to work perfectly with no sign of a blown fuse or any other issue, rather pointing the finger back at their battery and the way it is protected and how that might differ from the original battery.

 

If it is designed to replace the original battery but fails in operation you might be able to make a case that their battery is not fit for purpose to get your money back and re think your options.

 

Perhaps bite the bullet and buy a second hand original battery. I have seen a couple of Yamaha batteries on ebay described as new and unused, one by a bike shop that said it was where a customer had asked to upgrade the original 400Wh battery to a 500Wh. It was only lightly discounted to just under £550 but you might have been able to do negotiate a bit further.

 

However a pedelec member lzzyekerslike bought an allbatteries battery for his Yamaha and as far as I know has had no issues at all with it. Something is not quite right.

Hi doomo,

 

I find their response a little disingenuous, you might want to point out that...

 

While their comment that it was due to 'customer error' would appear to be incorrect and slightly annoying in this case, they are only trying to cover themselves from liability, but they are going to fix it and send it back, so personally, I'd not look a gift horse in the mouth, and just get the battery back fixed for free! If it happens again, then, I'd start to make a fuss!

 

We don't know what has happened here. It might simply be a fuse that was out of tolerance straight from the component factory (at the low prices of these 3rd party batteries, its a fair guess that they aren't going to put the absolute best components in).

 

It would be really great to know where and how to replace the fuse though.

You might be right GLJoe. I was reacting to the companies rather pompous language.

 

If it only happens only very occasionally and changing the fuse is easy and you carry the original battery with you so you can swap over if need be then carry on.

 

Though usually fuses blow for a reason and it is best to get to the bottom of what that is to sort it out.

 

Fuses are though cheap and once you know how easy to change.

Hi doomo,

 

I find their response a little disingenuous, you might want to point out that you only bought their battery to have an increased range and are still using the original battery that continues to work perfectly with no sign of a blown fuse or any other issue, rather pointing the finger back at their battery and the way it is protected and how that might differ from the original battery.

 

If it is designed to replace the original battery but fails in operation you might be able to make a case that their battery is not fit for purpose to get your money back and re think your options.

 

Perhaps bite the bullet and buy a second hand original battery. I have seen a couple of Yamaha batteries on ebay described as new and unused, one by a bike shop that said it was where a customer had asked to upgrade the original 400Wh battery to a 500Wh. It was only lightly discounted to just under £550 but you might have been able to do negotiate a bit further.

 

However a pedelec member lzzyekerslike bought an allbatteries battery for his Yamaha and as far as I know has had no issues at all with it. Something is not quite right.

 

Almost 18 months on and the Yamaha allbatteries is still working perfectly with no apparent loss of performance.

I would definitely buy another one if I ever needed to.

Hi I telephoned Jimmy on Friday he was in fine fettle. He is 69 but still going strong. If he does ever retire - there will be a lot of disappointed customers .