Why bother buying rubbish you'd have to repair or upgrade, shortly after purchase? If I had a budget of £600, I'd take a punt on a Bafang 36V 250W BBS01B kit from PSW Power for £300.28, then get the best battery deal I could (without skimping by buying cheap Chinese celled [false economy]), and a decent secondhand bike from ebay, Gumtree or Faceache marketplace etc. Faceache in particular appears to be a buyer's market. You can get a lot more bang for your buck buying a secondhand bike. My bike's an old folding bike from 2006: 36V 250W BBS01B converted and it rides great, hauls heavy trailers up hills with ease, zooms along fast on flat roads.

 

But a KT hub motor kit will be cheaper - they reportedly last for many years, and are cheaper to repair.

 

https://www.pswpower.com/products/europe-or-china-stock-36v-250w-15a-bafang-8fun-bbs01b-mid-drive-motor-bicycle-electric-bike-conversion-kits-newest-version-63

 

 

Edited October 3, 20232 yr by guerney

perhaps someone should mention the price premium charged for replacement batteries in a custom form to fit an integral frame mount if available at all.

The extreme example being the recent post regarding a ktm battery circa £1.5k with 20% off iirc..

Decathlon batteries are reasonable at £279 for my 500E bike, but I might be looking to recell after the 2 year warranty period. Hopefully long after 2 years:)

Edited October 3, 20232 yr by peterjd

I like [mention=39093]Peter.Bridge[/mention] 's suggestion of the Eleglide Citycrosser at £599. It's got all the extra bits [mention=6303]Woosh[/mention] mentioned in post #20 for a commute (mudguards, stand, front light, 700c puncture-proof tyres, even a front rack), rapid-fire 7-speed Shimano gears (presumably Tourney, but nothing wrong with that), and a 10Ah battery that should manage a 20 mile commute... and it claims a proper torque sensor too. I think it looks pretty respectable, and that's an amazing discount/bargain. Not sure if that's a Dorado battery, but I saw replacement 36v/10Ah ones for £220ish somewhere. EDIT: Looking further into this, Eleglide have a UK/EU warehouse and offer a quite good range of essential spares for this bike here. A spare 36v 10Ah battery is £202.

 

Sure, we'd all prefer a £2000+ Cube or something better if we had the choice and budget, but we're not all that lucky. Maybe upgrade the brakes to hydraulic for £40, but the existing mechanical discs would do the job fine at least to start with.

 

There's a Van-dweller on Youtube running an Eleglide bike long term, and he loves it.

 

Edited October 3, 20232 yr by cyclebuddy

I like [mention=39093]Peter.Bridge[/mention] 's suggestion of the Eleglide Citycrosser at £599. It's got all the extra bits [mention=6303]Woosh[/mention] mentioned in post #20 for a commute (mudguards, stand, front light, 700c puncture-proof tyres, even a front rack), rapid-fire 7-speed Shimano gears (presumably Tourney, but nothing wrong with that), and a 10Ah battery that should manage a 20 mile commute... and it claims a proper torque sensor too. I think it looks pretty respectable, and that's an amazing discount/bargain. Not sure if that's a Dorado battery, but I saw replacement 36v/10Ah ones for £220ish somewhere. EDIT: Looking further into this, Eleglide have a UK/EU warehouse and offer a quite good range of essential spares for this bike here. A spare 36v 10Ah battery is £202.

 

Sure, we'd all prefer a £2000+ Cube or something better if we had the choice and budget, but we're not all that lucky. Maybe upgrade the brakes to hydraulic for £40, but the existing mechanical discs would do the job fine at least to start with.

 

There's a Van-dweller on Youtube running an Eleglide bike long term, and he loves it.

 

[ATTACH=full]54373[/ATTACH]

Yes, there's quite a lot of youtube reviews (where the reviewer has been given the bike) . Also found this review quite helpful https://en.gizchina.it/2022/12/recensione-eleglide-citycrosser-bici-elettrica-economica/ with some pros and cons

 

The one area that would be a concern is customer service, but maybe buy from a bike shop that has a good reputation for customer service that does price match - maybe https://theelectricrevolution.co.uk/products/eleglide-citycrosser

Edited October 3, 20232 yr by Peter.Bridge

I like [mention=39093]Peter.Bridge[/mention] 's suggestion of the Eleglide Citycrosser at £599. It's got all the extra bits [mention=6303]Woosh[/mention] mentioned in post #20 for a commute (mudguards, stand, front light, 700c puncture-proof tyres, even a front rack), rapid-fire 7-speed Shimano gears (presumably Tourney, but nothing wrong with that), and a 10Ah battery that should manage a 20 mile commute... and it claims a proper torque sensor too. I think it looks pretty respectable, and that's an amazing discount/bargain. Not sure if that's a Dorado battery, but I saw replacement 36v/10Ah ones for £220ish somewhere. EDIT: Looking further into this, Eleglide have a UK/EU warehouse and offer a quite good range of essential spares for this bike here. A spare 36v 10Ah battery is £202.

 

Sure, we'd all prefer a £2000+ Cube or something better if we had the choice and budget, but we're not all that lucky. Maybe upgrade the brakes to hydraulic for £40, but the existing mechanical discs would do the job fine at least to start with.

 

There's a Van-dweller on Youtube running an Eleglide bike long term, and he loves it.

 

[ATTACH type=full" alt="54373]54373[/ATTACH]

Torque sensor might sound like a good idea, but it makes any repairs a lot more complicated and expensive. Also, cheap Chinese torque sensors don't give a ride like a Bosch. Some are just used as a switch like a normal pedal sensor. Also, the battery is not as ubiquitous as the hailong type, and it has smaller capacity and is more expensive to replace. That bike looks great and will be good while it's working.

 

Mudguards and a rack cost around £20 together, and they can be easily fitted to any bike, so shouldn't be a deciding factor for a bike unless there are two very similar bikes at the same price, and one has them and the other doesn't.

I agree with the comments on torque sensor and battery. The advert claims an absurd 75km range (without even using the 'up to' getout (***)), but it should be good for 20 miles. As above, you will be limited for choice of replacement when the time comes.

 

Mudguards aren't always that easy to fit if clearance is tight so it is helpful to have them prefitted. The choice of a front rack seems a bit odd for that bike.

 

Not as important on an ebike as a regular one, but I'd still want a wider range of gears.

 

I find a kickstand near the back (like that bike) gives better stability than one at the bottom bracket.

 

Having a regular non-suspension seatpost is a plus at that price range.

 

You'll probably need very regular checking on the spokes if you are riding that regularly, the wheels will almost certainly to be a weak point.

 

(***) edit, I see that further down the page a second reference to 75km is much clearer about the 'up to'.

Torque sensor might sound like a good idea, but it makes any repairs a lot more complicated and expensive. Also, cheap Chinese torque sensors don't give a ride like a Bosch. Some are just used as a switch like a normal pedal sensor. Also, the battery is not as ubiquitous as the hailong type, and it has smaller capacity and is more expensive to replace. That bike looks great and will be good while it's working.

 

Mudguards and a rack cost around £20 together, and they can be easily fitted to any bike, so shouldn't be a deciding factor for a bike unless there are two very similar bikes at the same price, and one has them and the other doesn't.

When the OP's total budget is £600, all those extra bits soon add up. The important thing IMHO is that the oft-difficult-bits-to-replace like battery, display, charger, torque sensor etc are available to buy direct from the makers website for very reasonable money (curiously the controller isn't listed, but given everything else is I'm sure it would be if you asked). Yes, your replacement battery options are more limited as the battery is integrated, but many here pay through the nose for "on-trend" features like that... remembering of course that this whole bike is cheaper than just a Bosch battery.

 

Amazon reviews for this model are almost exclusively favorable - the small minority giving "critical" ratings not even leaving a comment as to why.

 

It seems such a great package at that price, I'm almost inclined to buy one just for a laugh... but I'm already at n+2 e-bikes.

Torque sensor might sound like a good idea, but it makes any repairs a lot more complicated and expensive.

We'll getting a new bottom bracket torque sensor (BBTS) system next week that I hope will fix that issue and give us a USP for building cheap bikes next year. The whole system minus the battery and motor wheel sells for £100 to speed up adoption. Simple plug and play waterproof wiring makes for easy installation. The most difficult job is to whip out the old BB.

Decathlon batteries are reasonable at £279 for my 500E bike, but I might be looking to recell after the 2 year warranty period. Hopefully long after 2 years:)

How often do you charge? are you close to getting the 'expected' 500 charge cycles?? (does anyone get 500 or a 1000 charge cycles?? or is that just what they all say??)

 

Granted a well placed "most" should have sat in my post, Not all 'intergral' batteries are a bad deal it seems, would you grant me a many, or a most even?

We'll getting a new bottom bracket torque sensor (BBTS) system next week that I hope will fix that issue and give us a USP for building cheap bikes next year. The whole system minus the battery and motor wheel sells for £100 to speed up adoption. Simple plug and play waterproof wiring makes for easy installation. The most difficult job is to whip out the old BB.

That sounds really interesting - will you be selling that so we could install on exisiting kit builds ?

Amazon Prime days soon. There is a chance they will have some ebikes on 50% offer again.

That sounds really interesting - will you be selling that so we could install on exisiting kit builds ?

Yes, hopefully in two to three weeks.

Yes, hopefully in two to three weeks.

Can't wait - not had anything to tinker with on my bikes for weeks !

Why do I get the impression everyone's talking amongst themselves and the OP`s left the room!

How often do you charge? are you close to getting the 'expected' 500 charge cycles?? (does anyone get 500 or a 1000 charge cycles?? or is that just what they all say??)

 

Granted a well placed "most" should have sat in my post, Not all 'intergral' batteries are a bad deal it seems, would you grant me a many, or a most even?

 

Usually after it is below 50% on the display. Haven't really checked the range but does seem only a little less than the 90Km they claim at modest assistance (ie 1 and 2 settings). Because of the torque sensor I think I do put a little more effort into cycling than I would with a cadence sensor but that's what I wanted.

PS It is in fact the 11.6Ah battery which is quoted at £299.99

Edited October 4, 20232 yr by peterjd

£500-600 good luck, the battery can cost that

 

Also avoid HUB drives like Woosh where possible, remember they have NO gears attached, the motor simply speeds up and slows down, with mid drives you can still change the bikes gears as you do when riding, the motor does all the work where as MID drives use the gears allowing you to change and ride a bike as usual, hub motor sellers never point out the failings of hub drives.

 

They are cheap for a reason

 

https://www.cyclevolta.com/story/ebike-basics/hub-drive-vs-mid-drive-e-bike-motor-comparison-analysis/#:~:text=The%20bigger%20drawback%20to%20the,drive%20motors%20can%20feel%20underpowered.

Edited October 4, 20232 yr by Saracen

Want to get new Ebike, havent got time to do a conversion and preffer new to 2nd hand

 

 

Cheap means just that cheap Chinese unreliable, good luck

 

I would personally not touch one but look at Halfords PRE owned

 

https://www.halfords.com/bikes/second-hand-bikes/electric-bikes/second-hand-grade-b---carrera-vengeance-e-mens-electric-mountain-bike---m-l-frames-806206.html?stockInventory=undefined&_gl=1*nx8heo*_up*MQ..*_ga*MTk1OTkzOTAzNS4xNjk2NDEwODUx*_ga_VK44BRER97*MTY5NjQxMDg1MS4xLjEuMTY5NjQxMDg3NC4wLjAuMA..

Edited October 4, 20232 yr by Saracen

What amazes me is the assumption that £600 is a lot, think about it

 

You pay £600

 

Of that take off sellers (shop) commission, distribution costs, manufacturing costs, and you are left with a bike who's materials are worth about £150-200, so CHEAP plastic, low value metal, rim brakes, and worst of all the cheap Chinese battery I wouldn't have in MY home when charging

 

I just had my Saracen and Sanderson Life framed bikes converted to E bikes, £850 each just for the conversion.

 

Also avoid HUB drives like Woosh where possible, remember they have NO gears attached, the motor simply speeds up and slows down, with mid drives you can still change the bikes gears as you do when riding, the motor does all the work where as MID drives use the gears allowing you to change and ride a bike as usual, hub motor sellers never point out the failings of hub drives

 

I don't understand your point. My hub motor has a normal splined cassette. It has exactly the same number of gears as it did when it was a pedal bike. It has a triple chainring, so probably MORE gears than most hub geared bikes.

 

I chose it because looking here it seems they break down less often.

£500-600 good luck, the battery can cost that

 

Also avoid HUB drives like Woosh where possible, remember they have NO gears attached, the motor simply speeds up and slows down, with mid drives you can still change the bikes gears as you do when riding, the motor does all the work where as MID drives use the gears allowing you to change and ride a bike as usual, hub motor sellers never point out the failings of hub drives.

 

They are cheap for a reason

 

https://www.cyclevolta.com/story/ebike-basics/hub-drive-vs-mid-drive-e-bike-motor-comparison-analysis/#:~:text=The%20bigger%20drawback%20to%20the,drive%20motors%20can%20feel%20underpowered.

That sounds like a disadvantage of crank motors. Why would you want all the problems of drive wear and having to be in the right gear all the time, when you can avoid that with a hub-motor. I thought the idea of adding a motor to your bike was to make life easier, not the same or worse.

They are cheap for a reason

the difference between a hub kit and a crank motor kit is only about £100.

The cost difference is down to the gearbox.

The gearbox for a crank drive has to handle more torque compared to the gearbox inside the hub motor, is more complicated, heavier and more expensive.

 

Also avoid HUB drives like Woosh where possible, remember they have NO gears attached,

 

FFS

The gearbox for a crank drive has to handle more torque compared to the gearbox inside the hub motor, is more complicated, heavier and more expensive.

 

And on the evidence of the last 20 years, has on average more parts to fail, lower reliability, a far higher cost to repair or replace the drive unit if it fails and the pedelec with mid driven transmission costs far more to run, on top of the other higher costs.

 

The Moral:

 

If a rear hub drive can do the job, choose that every time.

.

Cheap means just that cheap Chinese unreliable, good luck

 

I would personally not touch one but look at Halfords PRE owned

 

https://www.halfords.com/bikes/second-hand-bikes/electric-bikes/second-hand-grade-b---carrera-vengeance-e-mens-electric-mountain-bike---m-l-frames-806206.html?stockInventory=undefined&_gl=1*nx8heo*_up*MQ..*_ga*MTk1OTkzOTAzNS4xNjk2NDEwODUx*_ga_VK44BRER97*MTY5NjQxMDg1MS4xLjEuMTY5NjQxMDg3NC4wLjAuMA..

 

Obviously you have never retro fitted a hub kit to a bike yet alone used one for many K's of riding.

Obviously you have never retro fitted a hub kit to a bike yet alone used one for many K's of riding.

It's going to be interesting to see how quickly he changes to a hub-motor motor, when his present one fails or when his drive train fails and he gets stranded, or when his gear cable snaps and he has to try to ride home in top gear.