Exactly, you make it easy. If you don't put any pedal effort into a legal e-bike, few of them will climb anything over 10% and many can only make a 7%.

 

Legal e-bikes help, but riders still need to be cycling fit to tackle hills worthy of the name.

.

 

Unless you are using a CD correctly geared for climbing, the OP's hill would barely warm my trikes BBS01 up in low gear with zero rider input, the Tonaro would also do it but the motor would be quite warm, it also has lowered gearing.

Hi Kevin, firstly thanks for buying a Wisper, we appreciate the business.

 

Thanks Bob for bringing me into the discussion.

 

A couple of points; was this a 2015 Mk1 bike or the new 2016 Mk2? There is a difference in the torque produced by the motor on each model. On the Mk1 we used a freewheel gear cluster and were not able to use the highest torque motor available. On the Mk2 we changed to a cassette and increased the torque, this will make a substantial difference when hill climbing.

 

The Wisper Torque bikes all have five power levels, 1 to 4 are torque settings and the fifth setting is F for Flat. F is used mainly on the "flat" or when riding on a slight decline. It quite simply turns off the torque sensor and leaves the bike in cadence sensor mode only (this is explained in the manual). The effect will be; as long as you are turning the pedals you will achieve full power. Some people like to have the extra power when riding on a flat road. In Torque mode, the torque sensor will recognise the pressure on the pedals has decreased when riding on a flat road and will gradually shut off most of the assistance, this is the way torque sensor bikes achieve far greater ranges. In our experience up to 40% more than a cadence sensor alone.

 

Level 4 in torque mode does not give you 100% of the power available. The torque bikes are still fitted with a throttle, although now limited to 4mph or "walk along" mode which is also far less powerful so it can not pull a rider over when walking their bike up an incline. To achieve maximum power in torque mode simply twist the throttle and you will get an extra boost. We have done this to maximise range, for the majority of your time on your bike you will not need 100% power but it is there if and when needed. The throttle will work on any setting, it does not matter if you are in 1 2 3 4 by twisting the throttle you will be rewarded with an extra surge of power, as long as the pedals are turning. When you release the throttle the bike will return to the setting on the LCD.

 

This may seem over complicated but we feel it gives a rider complete control over the assistance available, it only takes a few minutes for the controls to become second nature.

 

I do hope this helps?

 

Best regards, David

 

PS Your fitness will increase rapidly as you use the bikes, soon you will be soaring like an Eagle!

Edited April 12, 201610 yr by Wisper Bikes

F for Flat. F is used mainly on the "flat" or when riding on a slight decline. It quite simply turns off the torque sensor and leaves the bike in cadence sensor mode only (this is explained in the manual). The effect will be; as long as you are turning the pedals you will achieve full power. Some people like to have the extra power when riding on a flat road.

 

The mind boggles at some of the requirements riders require. It is very hard for me to comprehend anyone asking for more power on the flat

Exactly, you make it easy. If you don't put any pedal effort into a legal e-bike, few of them will climb anything over 10% and many can only make a 7%.

 

Legal e-bikes help, but riders still need to be cycling fit to tackle hills worthy of the name.

.

 

Actually I really should say "The bike and I make it look easy"

The mind boggles at some of the requirements riders require. It is very hard for me to comprehend anyone asking for more power on the flat

 

I know, it seems strange to people with your kind of fitness levels! However it is a definite requirement and very useful when a new customer starts riding.

 

We believe after a few months they will not need to use it, but it's a useful thing to have if fitness levels aren't great.

 

All the best, David.

Actually I really should say "The bike and I make it look easy"

 

And in your case it seems a near perfect partnership. I think with any e-bike it takes time for an owner to understand and get the best out of it, partnering it effectively.

.

The mind boggles at some of the requirements riders require. It is very hard for me to comprehend anyone asking for more power on the flat

I guess offering choice does add some confusion. I've never understood lycra...

I guess offering choice does add some confusion. I've never understood lycra...

 

Yes that's a tricky one, go back just 30 years or so and most riders wore normal clothes, I still prefer to ride in jeans as my photo shows.

Decent breathable and windproof clothing does mean you don't get drenched in sweat as much. I also think there is a lot of peer pressure involved too, you're not accepted into the fold unless you look the part.

The mind boggles at some of the requirements riders require. It is very hard for me to comprehend anyone asking for more power on the flat

 

I agree, however some people do need more help when starting off biking and will find themselves using the F button less and less as they become fitter.

Hi Kevin, firstly thanks for buying a Wisper, we appreciate the business.

 

Thanks Bob for bringing me into the discussion.

 

A couple of points; was this a 2015 Mk1 bike or the new 2016 Mk2? There is a difference in the torque produced by the motor on each model. On the Mk1 we used a freewheel gear cluster and were not able to use the highest torque motor available. On the Mk2 we changed to a cassette and increased the torque, this will make a substantial difference when hill climbing.

 

The Wisper Torque bikes all have five power levels, 1 to 4 are torque settings and the fifth setting is F for Flat. F is used mainly on the "flat" or when riding on a slight decline. It quite simply turns off the torque sensor and leaves the bike in cadence sensor mode only (this is explained in the manual). The effect will be; as long as you are turning the pedals you will achieve full power. Some people like to have the extra power when riding on a flat road. In Torque mode, the torque sensor will recognise the pressure on the pedals has decreased when riding on a flat road and will gradually shut off most of the assistance, this is the way torque sensor bikes achieve far greater ranges. In our experience up to 40% more than a cadence sensor alone.

 

Level 4 in torque mode does not give you 100% of the power available. The torque bikes are still fitted with a throttle, although now limited to 4mph or "walk along" mode which is also far less powerful so it can not pull a rider over when walking their bike up an incline. To achieve maximum power in torque mode simply twist the throttle and you will get an extra boost. We have done this to maximise range, for the majority of your time on your bike you will not need 100% power but it is there if and when needed. The throttle will work on any setting, it does not matter if you are in 1 2 3 4 by twisting the throttle you will be rewarded with an extra surge of power, as long as the pedals are turning. When you release the throttle the bike will return to the setting on the LCD.

 

This may seem over complicated but we feel it gives a rider complete control over the assistance available, it only takes a few minutes for the controls to become second nature.

 

I do hope this helps?

 

Best regards, David

 

PS Your fitness will increase rapidly as you use the bikes, soon you will be soaring like an Eagle!

 

Thanks for the info David. Yes, helps very much.

 

Its a 2015 mk 1 version. There are 3 modes plus 'H' ( I assume meaning 'High'/100% and still in torque mode or does this revert to cadence like 'F' in the 2016 version?).

 

I was mostly using H, lowest gear and also trying the throttle. I also tried mode 3 and higher gears.

 

On a side note regarding the LCD controller. I can't find any way to see the MAX/AVG speed and TRIP TIME, which are the bare minimum functions on even the cheapest off the shelf 'bike computer'!

Been on a 20 mile cycle around my home town today on my new(ish) Cube Touring Hybrid 400 (Bosch Active Line motor). I thought I'd tackle a 13% hill (https://goo.gl/maps/qVpmPLmGGfG2) and the bike handled it well on Turbo (250% assistance). I remained seated the entire way, averaging about 6.5-7mph, increasing to about 8.5-9mph towards the top. It required very little to no effort on my part. When I reached the top I stopped to take account of the experiment and saw another cyclist come up the same hill on what looked like a Haibike.

 

This is the view from the top of the hill, but you can't see where it really descends downwards from here:

 

http://i.imgur.com/uJaduSq.jpg

The mind boggles at some of the requirements riders require. It is very hard for me to comprehend anyone asking for more power on the flat

You will as the years roll on.

You will as the years roll on.

 

Never. I might require a little more help up the hills though. I have my doubts about this whole F button, it sounds like an idea dreamed up by someone who doesn't actually ride a bike.

I managed to grind up Greenhow Hill outside Pateley Bridge in North Yorkshire on my AVE MH7.

 

Ordinary Bosch motor, but the 20" wheels on the bike make it a good climber.

 

I was pulling involuntary wheelies on a couple of the steepest 16 per cent bits.

 

http://cyclinguphill.com/greenhow-hill/

Just got back from a ride into Navarra and had to use granny gear 3 or 4 times . That is 48-34. I am really going to put a sram 2 speed derailleur on the front so that I have 38-34 on tap because the mountain pass behind where I was is several kilometres long... Full ride report will be in the HobbyKing r/c Lipo thread later.

You will as the years roll on.

 

 

I very much doubt it.

 

With brain matter fading as old age approaches, who on earth would remember that lot. Talk about being over complicated and unnecessary. Evidently the OP thought so as well, or there wouldn't have had an issue.

 

 

 

.

Edited April 12, 201610 yr by EddiePJ

The wisper is advertised as a real alternative to Bosch mid drive, well I,mm sorry but it simply is not. There is no way a hub motor can compete with a cd unit on limited current on any type of steep climb.

I tried about 6 different ebikes before settling on a yam cd drive, which I felt was best hill climber with Bosch a close second . The only hub drive I tried was fine on moderate climbs but well down on other two mentioned on anything challenging. Seems to me there is a lot of BS pedalled, suggesting its a fitness problem or something else.. In reality its simple. Hub drives cant compete on hills with crank drives on 250w ( or thereabouts)

Buyers spending the cash they do on ebikes should not have to discover this for themselves, especially post purchase.

If you want to climb hills buy a mtb style mid drive, I think yam best but that could be a personal thing.

There is no way I,d describe myself as fit. 58 years old, replacement knee, 105 kg..

No idea of gradient I,ve climbed but had height gain of 3500ft , over 2 hrs using 98% of battery. Is there a hub drive built could compete with that on 400wh battery. I do not think so. Forum should be informing all of this.

Edited April 12, 201610 yr by (NoLongerRegistered#15675)

a woosh Big Bear will match the Yam in hill climbing.

The wisper is advertised as a real alternative to Bosch mid drive, well I,mm sorry but it simply is not. There is no way a hub motor can compete with a cd unit on limited current on any type of steep climb.

I tried about 6 different ebikes before settling on a yam cd drive, which I felt was best hill climber with Bosch a close second . The only hub drive I tried was fine on moderate climbs but well down on other two mentioned on anything challenging. Seems to me there is a lot of BS pedalled, suggesting its a fitness problem or something else.. In reality its simple. Hub drives cant compete on hills with crank drives on 250w ( or thereabouts)

Buyers spending the cash they do on ebikes should not have to discover this for themselves, especially post purchase.

If you want to climb hills buy a mtb style mid drive, I think yam best but that could be a personal thing.

There is no way I,d describe myself as fit. 58 years old, replacement knee, 105 kg..

No idea of gradient I,ve climbed but had height gain of 3500ft , over 2 hrs using 98% of battery. Is there a hub drive built could compete with that on 400wh battery. I do not think so. Forum should be informing all of this.

 

 

That's crap Flud!

 

My Panasonic hub drive KTM easily out climbed my Bosch Performance line powered KTM, and I'd happily place a bet with you, that it would p**s all over your Yamaha powered bike as well.

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited April 12, 201610 yr by EddiePJ

you prob a lot fitter than he is tho edd, flud should try a 4000w hub motor

You probably correct about the fitness level SW, but I was also the one riding the Bosch powered bike on the first run to test the difference.

 

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/panasonic-hub-motor-capability-as-fitted-to-ktm-e-bikes.23287/#post-297230

That's crap Flud!

 

My Panasonic hub drive KTM easily out climbed my Bosch Performance line powered KTM, and I'd happily place a bet with you, that it would p**s all over your Yamaha powered bike as well.

 

 

 

 

 

.

On a 400wh battery any time you like..

And my yam easily out climbs mates Bosch and he,s fitter than me..(but that's not saying much)

On a 400wh battery any tiime you like..

 

 

The nearest is 412wh, but if that is close enough for you, and I can get hold of a bike, I'd happily place a big wager on me beating you. Winner gets to keep the other persons bike.

 

At those kind of stakes, we can run it over three sections. I'm choosing one, you choose one, and the forum members choose one.

 

This is mine. https://www.strava.com/segments/610650

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited April 12, 201610 yr by EddiePJ

:eek:SCRAP !!!

The nearest is 412wh, but if that is close enough for you, and I can get hold of the bike, I'd happily place a big wager on me beating you. Winner gets to keep the other persons bike?

 

At those kind of stakes, we can run it over three sections. I'm choosing one, you choose one, and te forum members choose one.

 

This is mine. https://www.strava.com/segments/610650

 

 

 

 

.

 

We talking on or off road ?

I,ll pick venue.

Because a height climb of 136 m is feck all.

That's a 4 minute race for fecks sake.

Nope race is height gain 3000ft minimum and over 2 hrs plus. Your hub motor to compete will have to draw double or treble current mine does, it cant for 2 hrs.

 

You,ll either have to come up to North Yorkshire or go down to Pyrenees to get some real hills.( and bring your boxing gloves)

 

Try climbing up Ben Nevis on your hub drive see how high up you get with 412 wh.!!!

 

The race is we start at bottom of Pico Neulous.( its 4000ft) Bikes are put in max help. We stop when battery is flat..Mine has got me to top.!!! Any time you like. We then put boxing gloves on to settle it over keeping bikes.

Edited April 12, 201610 yr by (NoLongerRegistered#15675)