March 30, 20233 yr Where do you draw the line? Would you have the regulations that relate to safety on most electircal appliances you buy abandoned and leave it to device manufacturers to decide ?
March 30, 20233 yr Would you have the regulations that relate to safety on most electircal appliances you buy abandoned and leave it to device manufacturers to decide ? They already do that based on markets?
March 30, 20233 yr The solution is compulsory product liability insurance. If the seller does not have adequate insurance, its directors are made to be personally liable. At present, only manufacturers are obliged to have product liability. If you buy directly from a website, how would you know if you are covered?
March 30, 20233 yr https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/news/luton-fire-was-caused-by-home-made-e-bike-conversion-4413
March 30, 20233 yr Aren't chargers supposed to switch to trickle charge after battery is full? Manufacturer of a bike I bought demands battery is left on charge for 24h after it is full every few months if I remember manual well. If not then it would void the warranty. To be honest I have chickened out and didn't do it.
March 30, 20233 yr Aren't chargers supposed to switch to trickle charge after battery is full? Manufacturer of a bike I bought demands battery is left on charge for 24h after it is full every few months if I remember manual well. If not then it would void the warranty. To be honest I have chickened out and didn't do it. Not to trickle charge, the charge should terminate when the battery is full. However if left switched on it can restart as part of the cell balancing by the battery's own management system (BMS). Hence that stricture to leave it on for a long time occasionally to get the longest life from it. So long as you are indoors and awake that's ok, it doesn't have to be 24 hours. 16 hours from rising to bedtime during a day that you will be indoors with it all the time will be sufficient. If it does start balancing during that time it will shut down when balancing is finished. .
March 30, 20233 yr The problem is batteries are at their most vulnerable state when 100% full. If your charger goes a little over the safe voltage, it can set the weakest cell block on fire. Cheap batteries are made with grade B or C cells. They are usually mixed together, their capacity can vary from one cell to the next and are usually relabeĺled. Basically, they buy grade B and C from the big producers and put their own brand on them. Edited March 30, 20233 yr by Woosh
March 30, 20233 yr There is definitely a market and need for trustworthy supplier of good batteries in UK. Perhaps Woosh would like to fill that gap? At this moment we rely on what Chinese say about insides of batteries and somehow I don't trust a word of what they say. At this moment most of us just have black boxes with stickers "do not open" on them. Just like Pandora boxes. Personally I will put two DIY projects on high priority list: 1 Outdoor charging station - should be an easy fix. Plastic box and electric cable should do the trick. 2 Outdoor storage will be a bigger challenge, but is doable as well. Better to be safe than sorry I guess...
March 30, 20233 yr Mostly it is irrelivent whether the bike in question is a diy build or oem bought bike, what is in question imv is the poor safety approach that some take when charging without any monitoring.
March 30, 20233 yr Some good points being made! Given how ubiquitous ebikes are today and given this trend will only continue to grow exponentially in the coming years what I would like to see is a Public Information campaign from the government around the safety of Li-Ion similar to the smoking/couch fire one we have had in UK for years. TV, press and online advertising, short and sharp explaining the danger of knock-off batteries, poor quality imported batteries and how to charge properly (matched charger and attended), with some nice fires and horror stories to illustrate. I'm sure some here will remember the 'the water was only 2 feet deep' Public Information adverts on the telly from the 70s, there were other ones too like 'Charlie Says' and the frisbee electrocution one. I swore at a very young age (maybe 6), that I would NEVER jump in to water that I didn't know how deep it was or what was below the surface, served me well over the yrs. A similar 'shock' add re Li-Ion would save lives....? This advert scared the ABSOLUTE S H 1 T out of me as a kid... (Watch out for the Saville bomb though clunk click every trip)
March 30, 20233 yr Perhaps heat activated conveyor belts could propel flaming batteries out of automatically opening windows? The Guerney FlamingBatteryBegonerator™ is invented. Heat, not smoke sensing... because you don't want your ebike battery ejected at speed through a window, when you burn your toast. Edited March 31, 20233 yr by guerney
March 31, 20233 yr https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/news/luton-fire-was-caused-by-home-made-e-bike-conversion-4413 Thanks for the link However until idiot journalists actually bother to do their homework they would realise that the heading of the story should be something more along the lines of: 'Luton Fire was Caused by Idiot Who Abused Li-Ion Battery.' I'd doubt adding a rear hub (albeit illegal as looks 1000 or 1500W)/controller/display/wiring was the issue ?
March 31, 20233 yr Perhaps heat activated conveyor belts could propel flaming batteries out of automatically opening windows? The Guerney FlamingBatteryBegonerator™ is invented. Heat, not smoke sensing... because you don't want your ekike battery ejected at speed through a window, when you burn your toast. I might buy one, if the price is right....! It's been law in Scotland for a few years now that all kitchens must have heat and smoke detectors fitted and all communal rooms/spaces need smoke detectors fitted. How long will it be before battery manufacturers just tag on a tiny heat detector to the actual battery build with a bl00dy loud siren, at scale it would only be adding pennies on the overall cost? If someone wants to implement this then they can have the idea, I only want the first £50k ;-)
March 31, 20233 yr Author Swindon Police recently seized this death trap. No front brake: Check Ancient cantilever rear brake: Check Controller in plastic bag lashed to frame with tape: Check Drivetrain totally rusted out: Check Massive 1500w motor: Check Story here: https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/23403511.illegal-e-bike-drugs-weapon-seized-swindon-police-patrol/ Does that belong to a member here ?
March 31, 20233 yr Feck, that's a little too close to home, at least I wash mine, have F/B brakes, no rust and got rid of the bin bag hiding the wiring to controller... Why did he leave his Unit Pack Power battery on the bike....what a trusting soul (unless it was dead...even then...). "It also involved a short bike chase which ended with an illegally modified electric bike being seized." He must've been consuming way too much of the MaryJane (his own product), even then how he did he not leave the cop standing on a bike like that? Where I live, given my ebike build, I am always aware (when I'm not stoned out of my mind...), that there are cops on bikes patrolling locally that I don't particularly want to get in to a conversation with. I first saw a cop on a bike early on last summer, met wife for a drink outside a pub close to where I live, had just locked up the ebike at table and sat down when he passed right next to me. Instinctively I got up to take a pic of the bike, a normal bike but POLICE branded luminous yellow in places but decided not to in case he got ratty and spotted my ebike. Second cop I came across on bike was in Kelvingrove Park few weeks later when I was out with my 12yr old lateish evening, I saw him coming and immediately got off bike, told my son to as well as we were approaching a narrow track bridge over the Kelvin river. Cop was two feet from me but didn't bat an eyelid, either he didn't notice my rear hub, didn't care or saw we were respectful to others in the park. Third time was cpl weeks later, this time TWO of them, total @resholes riding two abreast along Queen Margaret Drive outside Botanics blocking all traffic from overtaking and these are very wide old Victorian style roads. I followed them for cpl miles at safe distance wishing I had my GO Pro with me....a lesson on how to ride like arrogant dicks I wish I'd captured. Fourth time I bolted, enough said.... Still not seen a cop on a ebike though... Edited March 31, 20233 yr by portals
March 31, 20233 yr 'Luton Fire was Caused by Idiot Who Abused Li-Ion Battery.' I'd doubt adding a rear hub (albeit illegal as looks 1000 or 1500W)/controller/display/wiring was the issue ? I basically agree, but it could well be a contributing factor. If you put a huge load on an inadequate battery, as these motors do, if will stress the battery and quite likely cause issues that increase the risk of fire.
March 31, 20233 yr To me, it seems inevitable, that if there continues to be incidents with eBike fires, then the 'something must' be done approach, of a Government seeking to attract votes, will act and introduce legislation.
March 31, 20233 yr what I would like to see is a Public Information campaign from the government around the safety of Li-Ion similar to the smoking/couch fire one we have had in UK for years. - - - - - - I'm sure some here will remember the 'the water was only 2 feet deep' Public Information adverts on the telly from the 70s, there were other ones too like 'Charlie Says' and the frisbee electrocution one. Their official name was Public Information Films, and they were cut as part of one of the government economies at the end of 2011 when the Central Office of Information (COI) shut up shop. Another of George Osborne's austerity measures during the Cameron government. All such films are produced by other non-governmental organisations now, like ROSPA for example. . Edited March 31, 20233 yr by flecc
March 31, 20233 yr To me, it seems inevitable, that if there continues to be incidents with eBike fires, then the 'something must' be done approach, of a Government seeking to attract votes, will act and introduce legislation. Yeh and knee jerk legislation like that is always bad legislation and, because of the inability of the campaigning politician to admit they might have been wrong or too narrow viewed, the hardest to repeal.
March 31, 20233 yr A big part of the problem is that people can't leave their bikes outside due to a lack of secure space. Bikes are often expensive and if left in a shed, they will disappear. Hence they get taken inside. I think there is a lot of fuss out of all proportion to the risk, just to get clicks or sell papers. I don't think it's fair to tar all home builders with the same brush. The percentage of people who build their own batteries out of all e-bike users must be incredibly small and those that do generally give up, or learn a lot in the process and end up with something equal to or better than commercial battery packs. A very very tiny number end up bodging something together and use it recklessly. On this site, when discussing battery builds/repair I have always seen people with suitable knowledge stepping in to point out the dangers associated with what someone might be planning to do. It is better to have people coming to these sites and be advised not to do stupid things, or things they do not have the competence to achieve than have them mess about on their own. Let's not forget that our homes are full of Li-ion powered devices, from laptops, to shavers to disposable vapes. The standard of construction varies from one manufacturer to another and any one of them could cause a fire. Just because a system is commercially made is no guarantee it is safe. I'm not just talking about Li-ion based systems...Grenfell was started by a faulty fridge. Other domestic fires have been caused by washing machines, dishwashers etc etc. For Li ion batteries, chargers are a big issue, too many of them output a voltage that is too high, causing stress on batteries and BMS devices. Then there is the stupidity factor. I could easily plug a 48V charger into my 36V battery, the connector is the same. I know not to do it, but others don't. What if your fuse goes on your commercial battery pack and you stick in a replacement that is a higher rating? I have bought several Yose power packs. A reasonably big brand who try and do things right, but when I have taken them apart, there are a lot of things I don't like from a safety point of view. Yose power are not alone in this. This has led me to dismantling most of my commercial packs, replacing the BMS and wiring, connectors, switches, fuses and then re-packaging. Extra regulation and being forced to buy only from commercial suppliers will not stop battery fires. Edited March 31, 20233 yr by WheezyRider
March 31, 20233 yr I think there is a lot of fuss out of all proportion to the risk, just to get clicks or sell papers. A similar situation to that reported with lithium battery fires in e-cars, almost entirely confined to just Tesla models and small in number. Yet every year thousands of IC engined cars, vans, buses, and trucks go up in flames and are totally destroyed, yet often not reported at all. Just click on this link to see all our London buses that have been destroyed by fire. .
March 31, 20233 yr If you want to avoid Daily Fail Click Bait here is a BBC link (trigger warning, contains usual sloppy BBC inaccuracies): https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-65088381 There is also this: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-63036417 Can't see how this can be workable.
March 31, 20233 yr "An inquest into Sofia's death is ongoing and LFB said it had been granted special permission so it could raise awareness of the fire risks and to prevent future deaths. It has launched Charge Safe, which is calling for people to follow safety advice." https://www.london-fire.gov.uk/safety/lithium-batteries/charging-electric-bike-and-electric-scooter-lithium-batteries/
March 31, 20233 yr “Never leave your battery to charge unattended or whilst you sleep”. That’s easier said than done.
March 31, 20233 yr “Never leave your battery to charge unattended or whilst you sleep”. That’s easier said than done. Like your phone next to your bed.
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